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  Reply # 1651346 14-Oct-2016 22:47
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frankv:

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right.... we ought to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Not sure if you are being sarcastic. I'd hope not. He (or in fact anyone) should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Regardless of what type of scumbag he may be)

 

 

 

 

According to http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/woman-says-she-was-groped-by-trump-on-plane-it-was-an-assault-w444700 there were 4 people who "corroborated her story". I guess they weren't eye-witnesses or the article would have said that. Maybe the eye-witnesses turned a blind eye?

 

 

 

 

So she had 4 corroborators, but still couldn't raise it earlier? I guess there might be good reasons for that, but there also may be some that aren't so good. I'm actually pretty surprised alarm bells aren't ringing for anyone else. I guess I'm just suspicious by nature.

 

 

 

 

It's perfectly OK that you don't want to gamble. I don't feel compelled to gamble. But I believe that "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." So asking someone to bet on something (i.e. risk their money) is a way to measure how sincerely they believe some particular statement. 

 

As regards the timing: a Jane Doe filed charges against Trump in *July* for statutory rape, which has been pretty much roundly ignored.

 

After Trump mounted his campaign for the White House, details emerged of the 1997 complaint, in which Harth accused him of “attempted ‘rape’”. This related to 1993, BTW.

 

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/now/politics/215671-donald-trump-rape-timeline was published July 2015.

 

 

I think you are mistaking my concern for the timing, and the fact everyone has pretty much decided he is guilty already, with some incorrect view that I believe he is innocent or guilty. 

 

Let me try and be as clear as I can be (though to be fair I think I've been pretty clear already). I believe that these claims should be fully investigated. If there is guilt there should be punishment, but if there is none, then he should be made "whole" again, like it would be if he wasn't accused. If it turns out these women made these stories up (as opposed to there not being enough evidence to support a conviction) then those parties should be punished and an investigation held as to what motivated them.

 

Because of the timing of this, it's going to be impossible to do that, and this is my issue. 

 

This isn't really about Trump, I'd feel the same way if it were you accused, or in fact anyone. ( I happen to feel the same is due of Dotcom who I think is a prize Dufus.)

 

We can all think of stories (or find them) where complete reprobates have been accused of crimes, and are NOT guilty of them.

 

As for the statutory rape, I don't feel enough has been done about that. A robust and timely investigation should (have) be held and similar action as above taken depending on the findings. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1651351 14-Oct-2016 23:01
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Elpie:

 

 

 

The timing seems spot-on to me. Ask a few more women what they think about the timing. IF the women were genuinely assaulted then Trumps claims that he is talk but not action in regards to abusing women would very likely trigger anger and outrage. Coincidentally to this, newspaper interest in Trumps so-called "locker room" chat (and subsequent statements during the debate) was high enough that the women were likely to get assurances of protection against law suits if they spoke to the papers. I don't know if they got legal protection in exchange for talking to the media but if I was one of those women I would have sought that!

 

Sadly, I think these issues outrage those that don't want Trump to be President and make no difference to his supporters. 

 

 

Ok so there were 4 corroborators (More than enough I'd imagine should she have wished to have gone to the Police to raise her complaint when it happened). She has lived with this her whole life, seem him get rich, famous, announce his run for President, seem him campaign, all the time being dishonest, repulsive, disrespectful to women, racist, on and on, he gets the nomination, gets through 1 debate, and then another, THEN makes a comment on tv about not actioning what he is talking about and THAT thing, more than anything else, is the straw that breaks the camels back? She is ok with him being President so long as he doesn't claim to not touch women? If he doesn't say that thing, she lets him go to run the free world, when she (apparently) has the power to single-handedly stop him with her 4 corroborators.

 

I can't claim to understand the complexity of emotions that a person goes through if they have been assaulted in this manner, but my logic center says it just doesn't make sense. 

 

At the end of the day, there should be an investigation, no question about it. If he did these things, he should be in jail, 100%.  Having said that, I believe an investigation needs to include both sides. 


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  Reply # 1651368 15-Oct-2016 02:51
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I agree. You are innocent until proven guilty (a concept Trump and the GOP seems to have a problem with vs Clinton).

 

BUT, he has not made it easier on himself by bragging about "grabbing them by the p*ssy". Thats bragging about assaulting women.

 

I learned today that the alt-right (or at least, some parts of it) sees consent as a leftish idea... That might explain something..

 

Quote:

 

RUSH LIMBAUGH: You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it's perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there's no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left.





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  Reply # 1651420 15-Oct-2016 09:09
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Fred99:

 

For goodness sake.  Trump BOASTED about sexually assaulting women.  

 

Actually, he boasted that he *could* sexually assault women. Not that he actually did.

 

 


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  Reply # 1651421 15-Oct-2016 09:20
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networkn:

 

She has lived with this her whole life, seem him get rich, famous, announce his run for President, seem him campaign, all the time being dishonest, repulsive, disrespectful to women, racist, on and on, he gets the nomination, gets through 1 debate, and then another, THEN makes a comment on tv about not actioning what he is talking about and THAT thing, more than anything else, is the straw that breaks the camels back?

 

 

You seem to be denying the evidence.... certainly these most recent 4 women haven't done anything until now. But there *has* been a history of women accusing Trump of sexual assault...

 

* charges filed against Trump in *July* for statutory rape (labelled at the time as an opportunistic attempt to destroy his candidacy)

 

* Harth accused Trump of attempted rape in 1997

 

 


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  Reply # 1651423 15-Oct-2016 09:27
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Even if the allegations against Trump were true, it might be difficult to prove any of them. In court cases, the sworn testimony of multiple witnesses can be enough to convict someone. As more and more women come forward, my logic centre tells me that it is increasingly probable that at least some of them might be telling the truth. 

 

Ultimately, I don’t really care. The things that are on record, that Trump has admitted to, are already sufficient to disqualify him from the highest office of the land. If he loses, as I fervently hope he will, it will not be because the election was stolen from him. It will be because he is a rotten human being who does not deserve to win. Even if all those women are lying, he still does not deserve to win. He has already thoroughly disqualified himself. 

 

Like the rotten person he is, he has built his campaign by appealing to the worst instincts of an angry and alienated underclass. He has irresponsibly unleashed forces that may go on to create real havoc after he is defeated. Democracy works because everyone plays by the rules and accepts election results whether they win or lose. By claiming he has been cheated of victory, as he has already done, he is doing real damage to the credibility of the democratic process and setting the stage for serious civil unrest. It is hard to say what the more extremist and unstable elements of his support base might do. It does not help when he whips them up, eggs them on, and then gives them an excuse to reject the process and its outcome. I hope Hillary wins because the alternative is too awful to contemplate.

 

   





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1651429 15-Oct-2016 09:35
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Well said, Rikkitic. 




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  Reply # 1651432 15-Oct-2016 09:42
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In some ways, I can understand his appeal to certain voters. He wants to rock the establishment and a lot of American voters are thoroughly sick of the way the cosy two party system is rigged so no independent candidate has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

 

However, he is a revolting, egotistical man who is totally used to getting his own way in business using any means he likes. There are many better potential presidents out there than Trump.


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  Reply # 1651508 15-Oct-2016 11:16
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He's now suggesting - predictably I guess - that some of his accusers weren't/aren't "attractive enough" for him to consider to be "worth" sexually assaulting.

 

 


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  Reply # 1651510 15-Oct-2016 11:20
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Elpie:

 

Fred99:

 

For goodness sake.  Trump BOASTED about sexually assaulting women.  And here some of you are debating about whether it's "fair" or not to listen to women who claim to have been sexually assaulted by the filthy lying POS.

 

 

The guy's a misogynistic, bullying, abusive, liar and that's been proven already. I doubt that any of the current news will make the slightest difference to his supporters. 

 

 

He was so right when he said he could shoot somebody in the street and not lose voters. Those who support Trump will not change their mind no matter what he does or says.

 

 


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  Reply # 1651526 15-Oct-2016 11:42
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freitasm:

 

Pumpedd:

 

We must remember that Trump is one of two candidates running for President of the US...theoretically the most powerful position in the world.

 

As a private individual I dont give a toss as to what he says or does....but when he is running for this high office doesn't there need to be some kind of respect shown for the position?

 

This farce is dividing populations in a most horrible way...and the more we see of it on our screens the more normal it is beginning to look.

 

This is one of the saddest sideshows I can ever recall seeing in my lifetime and makes me very concerned for the children who are witnessing it all. 

 

 

You have to show respect for the office sure. But unless he's elected, a candidate is nothing. I was reading how the loser is dropped like a hot potato. There was a case in which the Secret Service didn't even stay around after the losing candidade conceded defeat, and he had to go back home on a friend's car.

 

In other words, unless people are dumb to elect this person, he's nothing to do with the office.

 

 

 

 

Good point!


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  Reply # 1651536 15-Oct-2016 11:50
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sbiddle:

 

Elpie:

 

Fred99:

 

For goodness sake.  Trump BOASTED about sexually assaulting women.  And here some of you are debating about whether it's "fair" or not to listen to women who claim to have been sexually assaulted by the filthy lying POS.

 

 

The guy's a misogynistic, bullying, abusive, liar and that's been proven already. I doubt that any of the current news will make the slightest difference to his supporters. 

 

 

He was so right when he said he could shoot somebody in the street and not lose voters. Those who support Trump will not change their mind no matter what he does or says.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A phenomenon seen before in many countries - no need to invoke Godwins to find examples of extremist ideology fueled by fear and hatred.

 

Is there precedent in any country, for growth of an angry populist movement on the scale of Trumpism, which hasn't eventually resulted in bloodshed and chaos?

 

Duterte's a good one to watch. After all the "drug dealers" have been summarily executed by their fellow citizens, there'll be a "need" to start killing some other "undesirables".

 

 


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  Reply # 1651538 15-Oct-2016 11:54
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DarthKermit:

 

In some ways, I can understand his appeal to certain voters. He wants to rock the establishment and a lot of American voters are thoroughly sick of the way the cosy two party system is rigged so no independent candidate has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

 

However, he is a revolting, egotistical man who is totally used to getting his own way in business using any means he likes. There are many better potential presidents out there than Trump.

 

 

To me, its time for a change, a well used slogan. They dont like Hillary, they want a fresh start. If Trump had maintained his aggressive stance, but not the distasteful statements he has made, he would probably have romped in, it really was there for the taking. Thankfully, he has acted as he has to save the US people.




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  Reply # 1651543 15-Oct-2016 12:00
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Yeah:

 

First they came for the drug dealers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a drug dealer.


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  Reply # 1651588 15-Oct-2016 14:00
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frankv:

 

networkn:

 

She has lived with this her whole life, seem him get rich, famous, announce his run for President, seem him campaign, all the time being dishonest, repulsive, disrespectful to women, racist, on and on, he gets the nomination, gets through 1 debate, and then another, THEN makes a comment on tv about not actioning what he is talking about and THAT thing, more than anything else, is the straw that breaks the camels back?

 

 

You seem to be denying the evidence.... certainly these most recent 4 women haven't done anything until now. But there *has* been a history of women accusing Trump of sexual assault...

 

* charges filed against Trump in *July* for statutory rape (labelled at the time as an opportunistic attempt to destroy his candidacy)

 

* Harth accused Trump of attempted rape in 1997

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am saying a robust both sided investigation should be undertaken, in a timely fashion and ALL factors should be taken into account.

 

It doesn't matter that there is a history of accusations, accusations are nothing until they are proven. 

 

It doesn't really even matter if he is charged, it matters if he is convicted, in which case he should be subject to the penalties for those crimes. 

 

 

 

 


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