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418 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1484796 3-Feb-2016 21:17
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 See let's examine the _idea_ of comparing men's pay with womens, for equal work, and skill.

 

Okay first you have to get all the jobs in the world, and then, in a massive database of numbers compare skill levels and work levels for those jobs. That task alone is more subjective than drug harm studies. Any quantification of those idea's is bound to be imprecise. 

 

Second, you have to compare anything in a study to a control, or like versus like, controlling the variables. But men and women are hugely different. Women like to have children. Men tend to maintain their work even if they do, and as a general rule, be more career driven. Men and women also have different skill dispositions. Women tend to be good at multi-tasking, creative and social tasks, men tend to be better at spacial logic, cool reason, and strength tasks. 

 

There is nothing to suggest that you can fairly compare men and women, in terms of their equivilance within the workplace. They have on average different skill dispositions, and different career priorities. They also tend to choose different jobs from men on average.

 

Add that to the highly subjective nature of quantifying 'like skill and work' across all of commerce, and I personally am left with the feeling, that this isn't really good science. 

 

It would be better to compare a single profession, that men and women are equally attracted to and equally skilled at in the sense of gender skill biases, eliminating all parents - to eliminate all the variables that prevent it from being good science.

 

I think if we did that, we'd find men and women are paid exactly the same. 





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3315 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1485090 4-Feb-2016 11:15
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We know businesses like to drive out costs and one way of doing this is to push down payroll costs ...

 

We know women and men are on average equally capable ...

 

If women really are paid less why are employers not recruiting predominantly females?

 

Market forces should direct businesses toward female employees, just as it directs them toward more cost effective suppliers of other inputs.





Mike

 
 
 
 


320 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1485100 4-Feb-2016 11:34
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MikeAqua:

 

There is of course an obvious and simple solution: For men and women to compete in the same competition.  With the exception of tackle varieties of football and fighting based sports, it's feasible and safe for men and women to compete as equals. 

 

Why not?

 

 

Because it's already failed.  You, right now, can go and start one of these mixed gender competitions.  Anyone can.  But no-one wants it, and they certainly don't agree with your arbitrary list of things men and women are equal in.  I guess you could ban men only and women only activities, and make a pro-diversity council that rules on which sports it applied to.

 

It sounds complicated and not very clear or obvious to me.

 

By the way, maybe you don't know it but someone has forced all the professional female tennis players to accept they are less physically capable than men and that they are only capable of playing at most 3 sets, where men can play 5.  I bet Serena Williams would love to be told she has to compete against Novac Djokavic and Roger Federer for the championship money.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1485104 4-Feb-2016 11:41
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MikeAqua:

 

We know businesses like to drive out costs and one way of doing this is to push down payroll costs ...

 

We know women and men are on average equally capable ...

 

If women really are paid less why are employers not recruiting predominantly females?

 

Market forces should direct businesses toward female employees, just as it directs them toward more cost effective suppliers of other inputs.

 

 

I've worked at companies that would have loved to be able to hire skilled females as an alternative over the abundance of males.  But when you want skilled employees and women are not generally interested in learning those skills, you don't have much of a choice.  They might have even paid a premium for a compelling female employee, over an equally skilled male employee.  But unicorns..


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  Reply # 1485262 4-Feb-2016 15:36
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I agree Williams would be no match for Djokavic or Federer.  She would be beaten in three sets.

 

They get paid better because they are better. Nothing wrong with that.

 

rmt38:

 

I bet Serena Williams would love to be told she has to compete against Novac Djokavic and Roger Federer for the championship money.

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1485289 4-Feb-2016 15:55
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Absolutely in some sectors (e.g. tree felling) that will apply.  In others (e.g. preschool teaching) the 'unicorns' will be male.

 

But in most roles, there will be plenty of capable male and female candidates to choose from. For every role I have ever been involved in recruitment there has been.

 

 

 

 

 

rmt38:

 

I've worked at companies that would have loved to be able to hire skilled females as an alternative over the abundance of males.  But when you want skilled employees and women are not generally interested in learning those skills, you don't have much of a choice.  They might have even paid a premium for a compelling female employee, over an equally skilled male employee.  But unicorns..

 





Mike

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