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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1486759 7-Feb-2016 08:34
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Rikkitic:

 

I think it is arrogant and disrespectful to be dismissive of this sense of unease just because some people are not able to articulate it properly.    

 

 

It is difficult to have a reasoned discussion with people who cannot articulate their perspective. Perhaps that is why the protests consist of doing things like seditious vandalizing MP's offices, disrupting traffic by sitting on motorways, and throwing sex toys at Ministers. There's no coherent argument in any of that.

 

Meanwhile, there certainly are issues to discuss. As with any negotiation, trade-offs need to be made. In the TPP, NZ has conceded things that aren't ideal for us and there may well be a price to be paid for being part of the agreement. But historically much of NZ's wealth is derived from trade, and that will continue to be the case in the future. Being excluded from the TPP would significantly limit our future trade prospects. Of course, there are important questions that deserve discussion, such as: who gains/loses from the TPP? whether or not the trade-offs are worthwhile? and is the process reasonable? Unfortunately in amongst all the shouting and throwing, there has been very little actual discussion.


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  Reply # 1486769 7-Feb-2016 08:52
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The main annoyance of the protests this week was an obvious hijack by those involved with professional protesting pushing their political agenda many of whom have no association with Iwi etc.
There are many issues affecting Maori and these have been overshadowed by the hijack. There seems to be the belief that all Maori are Waitangi Day protestors, from what I saw in Auckland ( we got caught up in it in Nelson street) the vast majority of protesters were not Maori but "rent a mob" protesters.




Mike
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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1486770 7-Feb-2016 08:55
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(a) For everyone saying this stuff needs to die down and everyone needs to grow up and be "kiwis" regardless of background, yes that is good advice.

 

 

 

(b)Sex toys are expensive, trust me, why are people throwing them at politicians? was it really worth such a tongue in cheek joke? 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1486783 7-Feb-2016 09:30
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MikeB4: The main annoyance of the protests this week was an obvious hijack by those involved with professional protesting pushing their political agenda many of whom have no association with Iwi etc.
There are many issues affecting Maori and these have been overshadowed by the hijack. There seems to be the belief that all Maori are Waitangi Day protestors, from what I saw in Auckland ( we got caught up in it in Nelson street) the vast majority of protesters were not Maori but "rent a mob" protesters.


Surely you don't fall fall the rent a mob argument.
I've heart rent a mob/crowd too many times. He can't even target an organisation by name, mainly because their isn't one. TPP deserves discussion , just like the gcsb bill did but we don't have discussions in nz , we have simplex PR

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  Reply # 1486789 7-Feb-2016 09:34
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turnin:
MikeB4: The main annoyance of the protests this week was an obvious hijack by those involved with professional protesting pushing their political agenda many of whom have no association with Iwi etc.
There are many issues affecting Maori and these have been overshadowed by the hijack. There seems to be the belief that all Maori are Waitangi Day protestors, from what I saw in Auckland ( we got caught up in it in Nelson street) the vast majority of protesters were not Maori but "rent a mob" protesters.


Surely you don't fall fall the rent a mob argument.
I've heart rent a mob/crowd too many times. He can't even target an organisation by name, mainly because their isn't one. TPP deserves discussion , just like the gcsb bill did but we don't have discussions in nz , we have simplex PR


Yet the same folks end up at every protest be it about TPP, a tree in Utiku, worm rot in Taranaki. These folk seem to be passionate about so many issues.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1486821 7-Feb-2016 10:07
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Firstly these people are a minority, the vast majority of the people who took the time to protest the tpp were Joe average concerned citizens. As much as media try to sensationalise and compartmentalise their socio economic status it simply does not compute. There were 20-30,000 people protesting on Thursday, most seemed like very normal people to me. The media focussed on 200 of them , admittedly at the front and it stands to reason these will be the most empassioned. If you watched the live stream they did not once turn the camera around to film the 19,800 behind them, in fact the literally ran to focus on the 1st 200.
Nor did tvnz accept statements or interviews when physically approached by protest orgasnisers.
If you listened to john Campbells interviews with protesters you get an entirely different and more intelligent perspective.

Which brings me to my second point, which I'll pose as a question. In a democratic nation why is it an issue to have the populous engaged in political issues, especially where information and discussion on a topic is discouraged by unreasonable timing of information released and unfavourable sociodemographic painting of the groups involved.?

I think we all get the point that protestors should behave but if we had more forums for discussion and debate and more (or any) transparency then we wouldn't need protests. Protests generally only happen when people's voices are muffled.
Very few people in this country will read a 6000 page document. But when the law society and law experts are painted as radicals, well, you get what you sew

Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1486824 7-Feb-2016 10:13
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The news said the tpp is only valid if we pass it into law.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1486825 7-Feb-2016 10:15
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Yes, and the government have every intention of doing that and we certainly won't be having a referendum on that, lol

BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 1486827 7-Feb-2016 10:20
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turnin: Yes, and the government have every intention of doing that and we certainly won't be having a referendum on that, lol

 

Meanwhile they spend millions on a flag referendum...





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1486829 7-Feb-2016 10:30
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freitasm:

turnin: Yes, and the government have every intention of doing that and we certainly won't be having a referendum on that, lol


Meanwhile they spend millions on a flag referendum...



Two of them, binding.

Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1486843 7-Feb-2016 11:38
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What i mean is there is still hope of rejecting the tpp ...

I must mention that One way is for the Americans to vote in Donald trump ...

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  Reply # 1486858 7-Feb-2016 12:01
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The throwing of said sex toy, is the same sort of thing that stops the greens getting the credibility they think they deserve. It makes the protestors look like unthinking activists first and people with real issues second. The Greens have some good policies, but at the end of the day there is a strong element in them, which still defaces opposition billboards etc. You can't run a Govt with elements like that supporting you. This is why those protesters, and the Greens, aren't taken "seriously". They have done nothing but HURT their cause.


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  Reply # 1486861 7-Feb-2016 12:09
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Everyone has the right to protest following the law, they do not have the right to cause the disruption and risk to the public they did in Auckland.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1486876 7-Feb-2016 12:17
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MikeB4: Everyone has the right to protest following the law, they do not have the right to cause the disruption and risk to the public they did in Auckland.

 

 

 

Yup. I also thinking blocking motorways is a stupid stupid thing to do. If I had been major I'd have sent the fire department there to hose them down.


Glurp
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  Reply # 1486879 7-Feb-2016 12:22
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MikeB4: 

Yet the same folks end up at every protest be it about TPP, a tree in Utiku, worm rot in Taranaki. These folk seem to be passionate about so many issues.

 

I would think this should be seen as a good thing. Many issues are important and those who are passionate about them rate higher in my opinion than those who don't give a damn. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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