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  Reply # 1511994 12-Mar-2016 14:33
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mattwnz:  I don't think people should be given a choice. I think the design should be designed and selected by professionals who specialise in design. The fact is that many NZers have poor taste, as can be evidenced by going into many peoples homes. So can those people be trusted to choose the best flag design? I mean you don't design a building by getting the country to come up with a design. 

 

The existing 1902 design was not the work of a design professional.

 

Admiral Albert Hastings Markham was an interesting character:

To quote from his wiki entry:

 

"Albert was often moody, irritable and defensive. He had a strong sense of duty as a naval officer, which compelled him to serve with a strict adherence to rules and established practices, and strong religious convictions. He did not smoke, allowing that a gentleman might have an occasional cigar, but believing that cigarettes were for effeminate weaklings and that a black pipe ruined mind and body. He did not drink and disapproved of those who did. He found it difficult to socialise with other officers.  ...

"Markham's family emigrated to the United States and John Markham bought a farm at La Crosse in Wisconsin. Albert visited them twice and he was unimpressed. He found the trains slow, the hotels disreputable, and traveling companions murderous. He was impressed by the wild grandeur and wildlife of the Mississippi Valley and was invited to hunt with General Mackenzie in Indian territory.  ...

"In 1869 he submitted a design to the Governor of New Zealand for a national ensign for the fledgling nation. His proposal, incorporating the Southern Cross, was approved and remains in use to this day."





Sideface


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  Reply # 1511997 12-Mar-2016 14:53
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Sideface:

 

mattwnz:  I don't think people should be given a choice. I think the design should be designed and selected by professionals who specialise in design. The fact is that many NZers have poor taste, as can be evidenced by going into many peoples homes. So can those people be trusted to choose the best flag design? I mean you don't design a building by getting the country to come up with a design. 

 

The existing 1902 design was not the work of a design professional.

 

Admiral Albert Hastings Markham was an interesting character:

To quote from his wiki entry:

 

"Albert was often moody, irritable and defensive. He had a strong sense of duty as a naval officer, which compelled him to serve with a strict adherence to rules and established practices, and strong religious convictions. He did not smoke, allowing that a gentleman might have an occasional cigar, but believing that cigarettes were for effeminate weaklings and that a black pipe ruined mind and body. He did not drink and disapproved of those who did. He found it difficult to socialise with other officers.  ...

"Markham's family emigrated to the United States and John Markham bought a farm at La Crosse in Wisconsin. Albert visited them twice and he was unimpressed. He found the trains slow, the hotels disreputable, and traveling companions murderous. He was impressed by the wild grandeur and wildlife of the Mississippi Valley and was invited to hunt with General Mackenzie in Indian territory.  ...

"In 1869 he submitted a design to the Governor of New Zealand for a national ensign for the fledgling nation. His proposal, incorporating the Southern Cross, was approved and remains in use to this day."

 

 

 

 

Admittedly, not ideal. But it sure sounds better than a bunch of slack jaw rugby watchers picking the best beach towel possible.

 

 


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  Reply # 1512005 12-Mar-2016 15:08
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Similarly the treaty of Waitangi was drawn up by a mere ships captain, rather than somebody authorised to conduct affairs of state.

 

Amateur hour and number eight wire, its the New Zealand way....


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  Reply # 1512009 12-Mar-2016 15:19
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If the rate of electoral fraud continues, the fines may pay for the entire flag change referendum boondoggle.

 

Perhaps there should be a change to proof of guilt, if you confess over Facebook to fraud the onus should be on the defendant to disprove.


gzt

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  Reply # 1512011 12-Mar-2016 15:24
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roobarb:

Similarly the treaty of Waitangi was drawn up by a mere ships captain, rather than somebody authorised to conduct affairs of state.


Amateur hour and number eight wire, its the New Zealand way....


Inaccurate. Hobson was Lieutenant Governor of New South Wales at the time and was certainly authorised and charged with conducting affairs of state for that purpose.

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  Reply # 1512026 12-Mar-2016 15:43
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mattwnz:

 

I think the design should be designed and selected by professionals who speicalise in design

 

 

most certainly, but i think the country has a right to say whether its acceptable or not. some professionals are inept. we dont want to give away our right to say i like it. but the whole giving us a choice of so many non professional designs and now one that doesnt stand up when you see it as a flag, even though i voted that one, still raises my suspicion around timing and motive of a flag change and the cost for the sake of it as Latta outlines along with many other good points.

 

but yes if they were serious they would have just used a professional designer in the first place.

 

number 8 wire, i wonder what kind of flag we could make with that haha. or even better those hanging new zealand paua shell glass map things. perfect flag.

 

id be happy with the white of the long white cloud, green of our canopy and black of the volcanic earth as a tri colour flag. i did a quick paint and it looks good to me. :-)

 

i hope we get it sorted professionally and not end up a laugh either way.


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  Reply # 1512062 12-Mar-2016 16:20
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roobarb:

If the rate of electoral fraud continues, the fines may pay for the entire flag change referendum boondoggle.


Perhaps there should be a change to proof of guilt, if you confess over Facebook to fraud the onus should be on the defendant to disprove.



Explain the fraud please, in detail.

That's the problem in today's world of entitlement, I want , and I want it now. The goings on in this world are not always conspiracy theories.

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  Reply # 1512065 12-Mar-2016 16:23
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TeaLeaf:

mattwnz:


I think the design should be designed and selected by professionals who speicalise in design



most certainly, but i think the country has a right to say whether its acceptable or not. some professionals are inept. we dont want to give away our right to say i like it. but the whole giving us a choice of so many non professional designs and now one that doesnt stand up when you see it as a flag, even though i voted that one, still raises my suspicion around timing and motive of a flag change and the cost for the sake of it as Latta outlines along with many other good points.


but yes if they were serious they would have just used a professional designer in the first place.


number 8 wire, i wonder what kind of flag we could make with that haha. or even better those hanging new zealand paua shell glass map things. perfect flag.


id be happy with the white of the long white cloud, green of our canopy and black of the volcanic earth as a tri colour flag. i did a quick paint and it looks good to me. :-)


i hope we get it sorted professionally and not end up a laugh either way.



The Canadian flag was hotly and negatively debated, but on here it's seen as a very good and well designed flag. Red and the maple leaf are Canadian, widely recognized. The fern is not just a sports emblem.

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  Reply # 1512301 13-Mar-2016 14:19
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yep i agree. just in the current design debated it doesnt look any good imo. id rather just have the simple black and white fern as a flag.

 

the worst flags imo are always the most busy flags.

 

thats why the simple tri stripe flags work, the canadian flag works etc imo.

 

thats why i think a tri stripe flag that represents NZ would work and is simple to design with some meaning. the sky, the flora and the earth/rock.

 

we could just have the auckland blues logo as our flag, auck is nz anyway isnt it? JOKES ;-p

 

one thing this whole process has done has highlighted to people how hard a task that seems so simple is for everyone to agree on. but im glad the government actually considered what the people want, who knows what we may have ended up with out of that bunch of options. were any of them professionally designed and paid for by the government?


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  Reply # 1512368 13-Mar-2016 15:58
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TeaLeaf:  <snip> the worst flags imo are always the most busy flags.<snip> 

 

+1

 

Click to see full size

 

(click to view)





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  Reply # 1512445 13-Mar-2016 18:28
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I found that TED talk quite interesting too :)

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  Reply # 1512602 13-Mar-2016 21:55
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tdgeek:
roobarb:

 

If the rate of electoral fraud continues, the fines may pay for the entire flag change referendum boondoggle.

 

 

 

Perhaps there should be a change to proof of guilt, if you confess over Facebook to fraud the onus should be on the defendant to disprove.

 



Explain the fraud please, in detail.

That's the problem in today's world of entitlement, I want , and I want it now. The goings on in this world are not always conspiracy theories.

 

 

 

There have been several reported incidents I have read of people doing things like collecting vote papers from people who had allegedly not intended to vote and filling them in and posting them.






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  Reply # 1514340 16-Mar-2016 12:17
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just a bit more to add to the commonwealth is not a redundant concept written by prior poster.

 

Despite the 600k+ kiwis living in Aus, this would be fantastic asset to our citizenship. Even the brits are polling yes, not often that happens. Of course Key doesnt want it happening, who is going to pay for his housing bubble in Auckland that they have done nothing to resolve. He will be left alone in Parnell with his own properties nose diving. On a serious note I think its a great idea, not that I need it to move to any of these countries but to broaden the minds of a lot more kiwis stuck in this concept that milk will save NZ.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/14/reciprocal-living-and-working-rights-backed-in-uk-australia-nz-and-canada?CMP=soc_567


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  Reply # 1514341 16-Mar-2016 12:19
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sideface how on earth did you find that one. i guess they just wanted to fit everything into one go. point made.


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  Reply # 1514349 16-Mar-2016 12:37
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TeaLeaf:

 

just a bit more to add to the commonwealth is not a redundant concept written by prior poster.

 

Despite the 600k+ kiwis living in Aus, this would be fantastic asset to our citizenship. Even the brits are polling yes, not often that happens. Of course Key doesnt want it happening, who is going to pay for his housing bubble in Auckland that they have done nothing to resolve. He will be left alone in Parnell with his own properties nose diving. On a serious note I think its a great idea, not that I need it to move to any of these countries but to broaden the minds of a lot more kiwis stuck in this concept that milk will save NZ.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/14/reciprocal-living-and-working-rights-backed-in-uk-australia-nz-and-canada?CMP=soc_567

 

 

 

 

Canada is hard. The conceot is great, I dont think any of the four Givts has an issuie with the concept, its the economics. GB is a large population, Canada and Oz broadly similar at a third, NZ a fraction. Say everyone wanted to go to Canada due to economic situation at home, coudn't cope. A large country with a small population, and I imagine Canada would be the most popular. Its got to be managed so there isnt a first world refugee crisis created by opening the immigration floodgates 


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