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gzt

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  # 1520215 26-Mar-2016 22:14
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PhantomNVD: I still want a link that shows this was a "binding referendum" please? (As someone mentioned earlier?)

I'm still awaiting a Tuesdsy announcement that they changing the flag anyway, as no referendum in this country is binding, and the government(s) seem to do whatever they please in their term of reign... [cut]

It is not clear to me either. The word 'binding' appears once, and I do not understand the context:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/whole.html

 
 
 
 


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  # 1520237 26-Mar-2016 23:35
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freitasm: How many times can you count "binding" here?

 

This website AND the voting papers both say:

 

"The flag that receives the most votes in the final referendum will become the New Zealand flag."

 

That sounds pretty binding to me  smile

 

 

 

EDIT: The Flag Consideration Project brochure "Get to know the five flags before you rank them" (issued before the first referendum) states:

 

"In a second binding referendum next year, you'll choose between the preferred alternative design and the current flag."





Sideface


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  # 1520238 26-Mar-2016 23:38
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Thanks!

Guess I was wrong and we will get to keep the flag after all!

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  # 1520240 26-Mar-2016 23:55
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TDGeek: Geez, lighten up. Read again. "If someone genuinely felt" isn't about you.

 

You are 'discussing it (with me) in this forum.

 

The current national flag is too important to me to vote to change it because a politician wants to change it to secure his 'legacy' as a mediocre prime minister. That is one reason why I voted against changing it."

 

TDGeek: You put that as fact, in fact its your opinion

 

"The alternative flag design was/is crap. EOS. That's another reason, and reason enough to reject it as the national flag of New Zealand. "

 

TDGeek: Again, your opinion.

 

Mine and a lot of other people who voted to rejected it because it is a poorly designed flag for New Zealand. Those votes are fact. 

 

TDGeek: The flag you want wasn't there so its crap, EOS? Ask Canadians in the 60's 

 

The flag I wanted was/is there. It's the current flag.

 

"The alternative flag does not represent New Zealand. It's just a very bad 'design' drawn by someone in an idle moment in a university lecture hall."

 

TDGeek: And a Union Jack with four red stars does?

 

Yes, see the fact of New Zealand history,culture, and the FACT that most New Zelanders voted to keep the current flag because of that fact.

 

TDGeek: Ask the rest of the world.

 

The rest of the world isn't New Zealand, and the rest of the world didn't have a say about the New Zealand flag. That's a fact.

 

"And most importantly the Union Jack on our flag represents a very important part of New Zealand history, culture, and what New Zealand is today. " 

 

TDGeek: LOL you have to be joking. I am a royalist. I love the legacy, but I also see today, its a different world. You can embrace both, or shall I say, most can. There is nothing on the current flag that denotes NZ. For my parents, and later who were alive in WW2, I can certainly see their desire to retain the flag. You have to respect that. 

 

This comment of yours isn't fact. It's just your opinion.

 

TDGeek: My vote was the new flag, it failed, Im fine with that, but your arguments are bizarre. And I am probably more a royalist than you

 

Again just your opinion, and irrelevant to the 'discussion'.

 

Just to clarify for you:

 

FACT: I voted for the current flag.

 

FACT: John Key is a mediocre prime minister (I'm being polite here) He and his government have put New Zealand into several hundred billion dollars of debt, that costs us $10,000,000+ a day in interest alone. That's the real legacy of his 'leadership'.    

 

FACT: He (John Key) stated he wanted the flag change to be part of his 'legacy' as prime minister.

 

 


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  # 1520248 27-Mar-2016 01:00
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tdgeek:
Handle9:

I find the complaints about the left of opponents of the new flag politicising the process pretty strange. This was a highly political process driven by the prime minister. If he had wanted to take politics out of the process by appointing a royal commission or initiated a bi-partisan process he could have however he chose to try and do it in a way that it was his proces. 


The article below by Duncan Garner pretty much nails it from my perspective.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/78253159/duncan-garner-the-flagging-fortunes-of-a-leader-chasing-a-legacy


I voted against the change because I really didn't like the way the process was conducted and thought the new flag, and all the other choices presented, were just a bit sh*t.



Sorry, but I read the article you posted, and was embarrassed to be a kiwi. I've voted national,, labor, greens or not voted at all, as a vote in itself. Duncan's article is highly political. And you cannot have a flag change and it not be political
. To read a leftist rant doesn't really help. I can see how the new flag, if it was the new flag would be a very very cool addition to his CV. But it's also an important issue is it own right. He said that do we want a new flag that bette represents modern New Zealand? That's a god question t ask. We voted. My preference was not decided, I'm ok with that. Well sort of! But I don't buy pro right , or in this case pro left click bait


Duncan Garner is a leftist? That is like saying Don Brash is a Green party supporter. Duncan never voted for Labour or Green in his life.

The whole thing is political and stupid. Remember Red Peak? Allowing Red Peak at the last minute show poor leadership & judgement. It tainted the process - it becomes political.





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  # 1520251 27-Mar-2016 04:44
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nakedmolerat:
tdgeek:
Handle9:

 

I find the complaints about the left of opponents of the new flag politicising the process pretty strange. This was a highly political process driven by the prime minister. If he had wanted to take politics out of the process by appointing a royal commission or initiated a bi-partisan process he could have however he chose to try and do it in a way that it was his proces. 

 

 

 

The article below by Duncan Garner pretty much nails it from my perspective.

 

 

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/78253159/duncan-garner-the-flagging-fortunes-of-a-leader-chasing-a-legacy

 

 

 

I voted against the change because I really didn't like the way the process was conducted and thought the new flag, and all the other choices presented, were just a bit sh*t.

 



Sorry, but I read the article you posted, and was embarrassed to be a kiwi. I've voted national,, labor, greens or not voted at all, as a vote in itself. Duncan's article is highly political. And you cannot have a flag change and it not be political
. To read a leftist rant doesn't really help. I can see how the new flag, if it was the new flag would be a very very cool addition to his CV. But it's also an important issue is it own right. He said that do we want a new flag that bette represents modern New Zealand? That's a god question t ask. We voted. My preference was not decided, I'm ok with that. Well sort of! But I don't buy pro right , or in this case pro left click bait


Duncan Garner is a leftist? That is like saying Don Brash is a Green party supporter. Duncan never voted for Labour or Green in his life.

The whole thing is political and stupid. Remember Red Peak? Allowing Red Peak at the last minute show poor leadership & judgement. It tainted the process - it becomes political.

 

You may be right regarding the process - but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great flag. It was the best alternative IMO. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1520255 27-Mar-2016 08:38
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I think if we go down the changing the flog route again we need to tell the NZ Rugby Union to pull their heads in and not threaten lawyers next time if someone wants the Silver fern on a black background as the nations flag..

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004





Regards,

Old3eyes


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  # 1520257 27-Mar-2016 08:48
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This thread is starting down the dark side and becoming personal, maybe time for the staff to consider locking.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1520258 27-Mar-2016 08:54
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dafman:

 

You keep saying Canadian's thought their flag looked like a beach towel. I can't find any reference to this, can you point me to a supporting link?

 

I ask, because Canada's looks like a great flag to me, nothing like the rebel sport '60% off' beach accessory we were offered up as an alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/31186095/how-the-world-reacted-to-new-zealands-flag-referendum-outcome/

 

Just above the Eddie Eagle video. There was another, taking about a Canadians parents who hated it like everyone else, now they love it, I;ll try to find that


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  # 1520264 27-Mar-2016 09:01
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MaxLV:

 

TDGeek: Geez, lighten up. Read again. "If someone genuinely felt" isn't about you.

 

You are 'discussing it (with me) in this forum.

 

The current national flag is too important to me to vote to change it because a politician wants to change it to secure his 'legacy' as a mediocre prime minister. That is one reason why I voted against changing it."

 

TDGeek: You put that as fact, in fact its your opinion

 

"The alternative flag design was/is crap. EOS. That's another reason, and reason enough to reject it as the national flag of New Zealand. "

 

TDGeek: Again, your opinion.

 

Mine and a lot of other people who voted to rejected it because it is a poorly designed flag for New Zealand. Those votes are fact. 

 

TDGeek: The flag you want wasn't there so its crap, EOS? Ask Canadians in the 60's 

 

The flag I wanted was/is there. It's the current flag.

 

"The alternative flag does not represent New Zealand. It's just a very bad 'design' drawn by someone in an idle moment in a university lecture hall."

 

TDGeek: And a Union Jack with four red stars does?

 

Yes, see the fact of New Zealand history,culture, and the FACT that most New Zelanders voted to keep the current flag because of that fact.

 

TDGeek: Ask the rest of the world.

 

The rest of the world isn't New Zealand, and the rest of the world didn't have a say about the New Zealand flag. That's a fact.

 

"And most importantly the Union Jack on our flag represents a very important part of New Zealand history, culture, and what New Zealand is today. " 

 

TDGeek: LOL you have to be joking. I am a royalist. I love the legacy, but I also see today, its a different world. You can embrace both, or shall I say, most can. There is nothing on the current flag that denotes NZ. For my parents, and later who were alive in WW2, I can certainly see their desire to retain the flag. You have to respect that. 

 

This comment of yours isn't fact. It's just your opinion.

 

TDGeek: My vote was the new flag, it failed, Im fine with that, but your arguments are bizarre. And I am probably more a royalist than you

 

Again just your opinion, and irrelevant to the 'discussion'.

 

Just to clarify for you:

 

FACT: I voted for the current flag.

 

FACT: John Key is a mediocre prime minister (I'm being polite here) He and his government have put New Zealand into several hundred billion dollars of debt, that costs us $10,000,000+ a day in interest alone. That's the real legacy of his 'leadership'.    

 

FACT: He (John Key) stated he wanted the flag change to be part of his 'legacy' as prime minister.

 

 

 

 

Given you seem to have a need to quote your opinions as fact, and any opposing as opinions, this "discussion isn't a discussion its just a wet tea towel fight. 

 

:-)


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  # 1520295 27-Mar-2016 10:10
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tdgeek:

 

dafman:

 

You keep saying Canadian's thought their flag looked like a beach towel. I can't find any reference to this, can you point me to a supporting link?

 

I ask, because Canada's looks like a great flag to me, nothing like the rebel sport '60% off' beach accessory we were offered up as an alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/31186095/how-the-world-reacted-to-new-zealands-flag-referendum-outcome/

 

Just above the Eddie Eagle video. There was another, taking about a Canadians parents who hated it like everyone else, now they love it, I;ll try to find that

 

 

Call me picky, but I reckon the sentence above Eddie is referencing the NZ flag looking like a beach towel, not the Canadian. It's a poorly written article. The thing is, you have regularly cited Canadian's also thought their flag was a beach towel also, yet I can't find any source citing this other than you.  


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  # 1520301 27-Mar-2016 10:31
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

Given you seem to have a need to quote your opinions as fact, and any opposing as opinions, this "discussion isn't a discussion its just a wet tea towel fight. 

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

A wet tea towel fight would be preferable to what is happening here.

 

No offence chap, but the last few pages have looked like a bunch of family members trying to calm down the hysterical aunty who had a little too much wine at a Christmas do.

 

 

 

I was hoping someone might take you aside and have a bit of a chat, but it doesn't seem to be happening :(

 

It's getting a little awkward.


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  # 1520307 27-Mar-2016 10:49
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michael001:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

Given you seem to have a need to quote your opinions as fact, and any opposing as opinions, this "discussion isn't a discussion its just a wet tea towel fight. 

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

A wet tea towel fight would be preferable to what is happening here.

 

No offence chap, but the last few pages have looked like a bunch of family members trying to calm down the hysterical aunty who had a little too much wine at a Christmas do.

 

 

 

I was hoping someone might take you aside and have a bit of a chat, but it doesn't seem to be happening :(

 

It's getting a little awkward.

 

 

I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Says it all. Seems some are offended by those that disagree, harden up I'd say.


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  # 1520311 27-Mar-2016 11:16
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dafman:

 

tdgeek:

 

dafman:

 

You keep saying Canadian's thought their flag looked like a beach towel. I can't find any reference to this, can you point me to a supporting link?

 

I ask, because Canada's looks like a great flag to me, nothing like the rebel sport '60% off' beach accessory we were offered up as an alternative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/31186095/how-the-world-reacted-to-new-zealands-flag-referendum-outcome/

 

Just above the Eddie Eagle video. There was another, taking about a Canadians parents who hated it like everyone else, now they love it, I;ll try to find that

 

 

Call me picky, but I reckon the sentence above Eddie is referencing the NZ flag looking like a beach towel, not the Canadian. It's a poorly written article. The thing is, you have regularly cited Canadian's also thought their flag was a beach towel also, yet I can't find any source citing this other than you.  

 

 

Daf, your right, I misread that, apologies


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