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  Reply # 1494820 18-Feb-2016 12:00
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jonathan18:

 

tdgeek:

 

frankv:

 

Geektastic:

 

And since I do not believe anyone is "deserving" of any "top up" they don't earn, that particular argument will not convince me of anything. That is OT though.

 

 

 

People deserve to have enough to eat and drink, housing, health, and education, just by being people.

 

 

 

 We live in a society where taxes pay for stuff, and part of that stuff is supporting those that cannot support themselves. Those who are disabled, cannot get a job, had their house trashed by earthquakes, thats what support is for.  All for one and one for all.

 

 

Don't poke the bear! Luckily it's a minority in NZ that support such a laissez-faire approach that certain curmudgeons on GZ espouse...

 

 

 

 

Well put. I was thinking of the C word today in fact, regarding said GZ espouser! 


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  Reply # 1494985 18-Feb-2016 14:43
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What about cash only cafe/restaurant? Know a cash only cafe/restaurant. Their food is pretty good, often pack during the breakfast lunch hours but I still have no choice to pay cash if I'm craving for their food. Should the IRD come & check them too lol?


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1496338 20-Feb-2016 16:16
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dejadeadnz:

 

tripp:

 

You're not the only one. 

 

I know someone that gets paid in cash for the work he does (He works for himself) yet has no company setup and I don't think the person is bright enough to work out income tax/GST etc and has done things like this before.

 

Just does what he does, gets paid in cash and repeat.

 

I can't report him as I have no proof he is doing what I think he is doing.

 

 

 

 

 

I often hear dodgers claim that they don't know how to regularise their affairs. That excuse/explanation makes me laugh. One thing I find amazing is how so many small business operators seem to believe that they have some God-given right to avoid the costs that other people incur, e.g. paying for professional advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean like Google etc who pay 90% of their profits to an overseas rights holder sitting in a tax free haven.

 

The big corporates are underpaying through loopholes and tax dodges by far more than cash jobs will ever do.

 

Its just the little guy is a much easier target.


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  Reply # 1496465 21-Feb-2016 09:06
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I sense high morality and duty here. I do wonder give the option to pay less tax (legally, not ethically) how many would jump at that opportunity, consequence aside.

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  Reply # 1496493 21-Feb-2016 10:37
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sir1963: <snip>

 

You mean like Google etc who pay 90% of their profits to an overseas rights holder sitting in a tax free haven.

 

The big corporates are underpaying through loopholes and tax dodges by far more than cash jobs will ever do.

 

Its just the little guy is a much easier target.

 

 

+1  The big corporates are ripping off taxpayers in New Zealand, and in many other counties, on a huge scale.

 

But thousands of "little people" are also ripping off other NZ taxpayers, by illegally avoiding tax.  It all adds up to a lot of money.

 

"Cash jobs" are not victimless crimes - we all pay for it, indirectly.





Sideface




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  Reply # 1496496 21-Feb-2016 10:47
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pinkydot:

 

What about cash only cafe/restaurant? Know a cash only cafe/restaurant. Their food is pretty good, often pack during the breakfast lunch hours but I still have no choice to pay cash if I'm craving for their food. Should the IRD come & check them too lol?

 

 

However you pay, they should give you a receipt with their GST number on it. You may want to claim your lunch as a business expense and the business will want to record the GST paid. That all goes into the wash....and the IRD can use the GST recorded against a number to estimate their revenue......and assess / audit them for tax.

If they refuse to give you a receipt with a GST number on it, they are breaking the law.  





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High fibre diet




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  Reply # 1496497 21-Feb-2016 10:48
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khull: I sense high morality and duty here. I do wonder give the option to pay less tax (legally, not ethically) how many would jump at that opportunity, consequence aside.

 

Some certainly will. Others value schools and hospitals and police and fire staff and decent roads to drive on....and so on. 

 

I could reduce my tax, but I don't. 

 

It's a shame this is perceived as "high morality". paying tax should be business as usual: the "insurance" we pay to help us all get through life with as little mess and bother - and as much opportunity for all of us to be a success - as possible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet




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  Reply # 1496501 21-Feb-2016 10:57
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sir1963:

 

 

 

 You mean like Google etc who pay 90% of their profits to an overseas rights holder sitting in a tax free haven.

 

The big corporates are underpaying through loopholes and tax dodges by far more than cash jobs will ever do.

 

Its just the little guy is a much easier target.

 

 

Two wrongs don't make tax dodgers right. 

 

There does need to be a global tax regime of sorts. US corporates are expected by the US to pay tax on money earned everywhere. Meanwhile, we would expect them to pay tax on money they earned here. That leaves them exposed to paying tax twice on the same income....perhaps even three times, depending on the countries / states / cities (NYC has its own income tax, for example) involved. 

 

So the way they handle this is to charge their NZ operation "service fees" - to support their global operations - and these fees would roughly match any local tax liability in NZ. This way, they transfer the income back to the US and pay tax on it there....once. Or they transfer the income to the Caymans (or some other tax dodge) and pay little or not tax there at all. All perfectly legal. 

 

Or like, Burger King, they "merge" with (in this case Tim Hortons) and become a Canadian company (or whatever other country is deemed suitable) and pay less tax and avoid much of the US regulatory oversight and the risk of being taxed globally by the US. Canada - like most countries - only taxes income earned in Canada. 

 

Our government needs to work with other governments to fix this. Unfortunately, the biggest country and beneficiary is the US so they will do all they can to prevent any change. If we were like China, we would not allow this sort of thing. But we don't have China's balls......especially when we have a sycophantic National government in office. Quite the reverse with National: they enable global corporates and we all pay for it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1496502 21-Feb-2016 10:59
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I'm late to this party, but.

In my opinion it depends on the job size and frequency as to whether it's a problem or not.

There are many tradesmen doing a few cash jobs a year totaling a few hundred dollars. I don't believe this is really a problem in the big scheme of things.

There are many others (probably this guy) who do many hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of dollars of cash jobs a year. That is a huge problem. I have a special hate for these people, and in the OP's case, I'd probably call the IRD.




Location: Dunedin



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  Reply # 1496509 21-Feb-2016 11:17
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I think I've found a variation. 

Some tree cutters ask that you make payment to their church. You don't get a GST invoice. 

 

Churches pay no tax. Do churches "reward" people who 'tithe' this way? It would be a way of laundering income through a church to avoid tax. The church keeps a cut....and the IRD doesn't get any. 

 

Even it is a straight donation to the church, it seems tax is being avoided by the person who earned the money. Is income donated to churches tax exempt? or do you pay income tax, then donate to the church....? 





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High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1496538 21-Feb-2016 13:41
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Sideface:

 

sir1963: <snip>

 

You mean like Google etc who pay 90% of their profits to an overseas rights holder sitting in a tax free haven.

 

The big corporates are underpaying through loopholes and tax dodges by far more than cash jobs will ever do.

 

Its just the little guy is a much easier target.

 

 

+1  The big corporates are ripping off taxpayers in New Zealand, and in many other counties, on a huge scale.

 

But thousands of "little people" are also ripping off other NZ taxpayers, by illegally avoiding tax.  It all adds up to a lot of money.

 

"Cash jobs" are not victimless crimes - we all pay for it, indirectly.

 

 

 

 

I agree, but the truth is the government(s) are only targeting the little people, the easy targets.

 

 


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  Reply # 1496548 21-Feb-2016 13:54
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sir1963:

 

Sideface:

 

sir1963: <snip>

 

You mean like Google etc who pay 90% of their profits to an overseas rights holder sitting in a tax free haven.

 

The big corporates are underpaying through loopholes and tax dodges by far more than cash jobs will ever do.

 

Its just the little guy is a much easier target.

 

 

+1  The big corporates are ripping off taxpayers in New Zealand, and in many other counties, on a huge scale.

 

But thousands of "little people" are also ripping off other NZ taxpayers, by illegally avoiding tax.  It all adds up to a lot of money.

 

"Cash jobs" are not victimless crimes - we all pay for it, indirectly.

 

 

 

 

I agree, but the truth is the government(s) are only targeting the little people, the easy targets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's worse is that when large corporates actually do get pinged for evasion (illegal) as opposed to avoidance (legal - and how Google/Alphabet manage to structure things so that they pay only 6.3% average tax), then "deals" are negotiated where they settle on payment of what they should have paid anyway, without punitive interest and massive fines. 


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  Reply # 1496629 21-Feb-2016 19:28
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Linuxluver:

I think I've found a variation. 

Some tree cutters ask that you make payment to their church. You don't get a GST invoice. 


Churches pay no tax. Do churches "reward" people who 'tithe' this way? It would be a way of laundering income through a church to avoid tax. The church keeps a cut....and the IRD doesn't get any. 


Even it is a straight donation to the church, it seems tax is being avoided by the person who earned the money. Is income donated to churches tax exempt? or do you pay income tax, then donate to the church....? 



You pay tax first, donate to the church 2nd, and then wait till year end to submit all your donations (to ANY non profit) and receive back the tax amount (less tax) that you paid on the donation.

E.g. I earn $100,000 gross [I wish!] , pay 30,000 in tax (rounded) , then 10,000 in tithe to the church.

At year end I get the $3000 tax-I-already-paid-on-donation-money back, less around $915 in tax ON the rebate!

So I get roughly the same as if I'd earned 90,000 gross (and given the 10,000 directly) as the tax I paid on the gift is reworked back into the gross and retaxed.

The small win for IRD is holding that money all year and only paying out my 'overtaxed' amount May/June the following year...


Source:
http://www.salaries.co.nz/a/2008-tax-rates-on-earnings/

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  Reply # 1496723 21-Feb-2016 23:34
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PhantomNVD:
Linuxluver:

 

I think I've found a variation. 

Some tree cutters ask that you make payment to their church. You don't get a GST invoice. 

 

 

 

Churches pay no tax. Do churches "reward" people who 'tithe' this way? It would be a way of laundering income through a church to avoid tax. The church keeps a cut....and the IRD doesn't get any. 

 

 

 

Even it is a straight donation to the church, it seems tax is being avoided by the person who earned the money. Is income donated to churches tax exempt? or do you pay income tax, then donate to the church....? 

 



You pay tax first, donate to the church 2nd, and then wait till year end to submit all your donations (to ANY non profit) and receive back the tax amount (less tax) that you paid on the donation.

E.g. I earn $100,000 gross [I wish!] , pay 30,000 in tax (rounded) , then 10,000 in tithe to the church.

At year end I get the $3000 tax-I-already-paid-on-donation-money back, less around $915 in tax ON the rebate!

So I get roughly the same as if I'd earned 90,000 gross (and given the 10,000 directly) as the tax I paid on the gift is reworked back into the gross and retaxed.

The small win for IRD is holding that money all year and only paying out my 'overtaxed' amount May/June the following year...


Source:
http://www.salaries.co.nz/a/2008-tax-rates-on-earnings/

 

Are you sure? To be honest, I couldn't really follow your calculations.

 

For a start, that link is way out of date. The top marginal rate hasn't been 39% for about seven years.

 

As I understand it, you get $100k gross = $76,080 net ($23,920k in tax). You give a donation of $10k to a church or whatever. At the end of the year you claim your donations and receive back 33.3333% of it (i.e. $3,333).

 

I don't know what you mean by "tax ON the rebate" and "gift is reworked back into the gross and retaxed". Sounds wrong to me.

 

To Linuxluver, yes, you get a deal if you donate to a church or any charitable organisation. In fact it's even better than simply being tax exempt, you actually get paid to do it (since the top rate is only 33%). See my example above, the tax on the $10k you donated is $3,300 but you get $3,333 back from the government at the end of the year! You end up with $69,413, compared to $69,380 if the donation just reduced your taxable income!

 

Edit: I should've said, it's even better if you're not on the top marginal tax rate. You still get to claim 33.3333% of the lesser of your total donations or total income (i.e. you can't donate more than you earn) but you can share your doantions with your husband/wife/etc!


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  Reply # 1496854 22-Feb-2016 10:36
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“Ask people in the UK when they last used a 50 pound note and the most common answer is to pay a builder or plumber."

 

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/there-are-300-million-in-circulation-but-why-do-you-never-see-australias-100-notes/news-story/5e8d287d9133d03f3dd51b394709b666

 

Perhaps % of highest denomination notes vs total $ of notes in circulation could be used as a defacto measure of rates of corruption.


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