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Sounddude
I fix stuff!
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  #1564754 3-Jun-2016 09:02
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noroad:

 

Bugger all use to me on the Shore, I bet I'll pay lots towards it though.

 

 

 

 

You say that, however the CRL is a prerequisite to rail on the shore.


trig42
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  #1564759 3-Jun-2016 09:10
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Sounddude:

 

noroad:

 

Bugger all use to me on the Shore, I bet I'll pay lots towards it though.

 

 

 

 

You say that, however the CRL is a prerequisite to rail on the shore.

 

 

A lot of use to you on the Shore actually.

 

Takes a lot of people off the roads and out of buses. More roads for you to use coming into the city (as it seems that a crap-load* of people that live on the shore do not actually work there).

 

*My observations only - I go the other way - driving from the CBD to Wairau Park area every morning - motorway going into the city is always chocka block.

 

I can't wait for the CRL. I wish they could just chuck bucket loads at it and have it done in a year (I'm sure the Chinese could do it!)


 
 
 
 


wasabi2k
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  #1564781 3-Jun-2016 09:35
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trig42:

 

(I'm sure the Chinese could do it!)

 

 

I'd like the rails to not bend and last more than 12 months so no thanks.


Davy
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  #1564832 3-Jun-2016 10:00
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wasabi2k:

trig42:


(I'm sure the Chinese could do it!)



I'd like the rails to not bend and last more than 12 months so no thanks.



China has some of the best rail technology and infrastructure in the world, I thought?

trig42
5045 posts

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  #1564837 3-Jun-2016 10:12
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Davy:
wasabi2k:

 

trig42:

 

 

 

(I'm sure the Chinese could do it!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like the rails to not bend and last more than 12 months so no thanks.

 



China has some of the best rail technology and infrastructure in the world, I thought?

 

Me too - and look what they did prior to the 2008 Olympics - so much infrastructure, so fast, much labour.


xontech
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  #1564911 3-Jun-2016 11:08
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Some observations I have and responses to some common comments about the CRL........

"No one uses public transport"
As an example:
"Currently, over 30,000 vehicles enter or leave the city during the peak periods. Mode share is changing, with public transport now accounting for over 50% of trips and growth in pedestrians and cyclists, which helps reduce congestion."
https://at.govt.nz/media/1819671/item-111-managing-traffic-in-cbd.pdf
That is less vehicles than what it was in 2001 (34K). So more than half the people coming in to the CBD during peak times are doing so not in a car, and this is increasing.

CRL Business Case:
"When compared to  the expected project cost, also in NPV terms, and allowing for the operating costs of the tunnel and new stations, this gives a benefit-cost ratio (BCR) of 1.6 to 1.7."
https://at.govt.nz/media/1770701/crl-business-case-summary.pdf
That is $1.60 of benefit for every $1.00 spent. In comparison, the Additional Waitemata Harbour Crossing currently sits with a BCR of 0.3.

"The CRL doesn't benefit me, I live in xyz"
Providing something that can effectively prevent up to 25,000 car trips on Auckland roads (30,000 people with car occupancy around 1.2) during peaks must benefit everyone, whether you use it or not.

And specifically to the original post, the CRL will enable up to 30,000 trips a day, up from the current capacity of 15,000, which we are possibly going to hit in the next few years. Projections are that Aotea station (on the CRL) will surpass Britomart as the busiest station. Having seen fully loaded platforms at Britomart, yes I do think the space is needed.


Krishant007
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  #1564931 3-Jun-2016 11:42
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Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.

 

And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.

 

Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 

 

I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 

 

I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 


 
 
 
 


Davy
193 posts

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  #1564946 3-Jun-2016 11:57
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Krishant007:

Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.


And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.


Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 


I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 


I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 



Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?

Krishant007
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  #1564950 3-Jun-2016 12:01
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Davy:
Krishant007:

 

Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.

 

 

 

And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.

 

 

 

Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 

 

 

 

I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 

 

 

 

I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 

 



Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?

 

If I was to move to the shore, I will be enjoying a lovely ride along the Busway. I believe that is a pretty good alternative to not having train stations on the Shore for the time being. 


trig42
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  #1564951 3-Jun-2016 12:05
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But people on the shore have the opportunity to use the heavily subsidised Northern Express service (of which a new station is being built at Albany too) and scoot down their own lanes next to the motorway. They will get over the bridge and into town a lot faster too, because when they get to the south side of the bridge, there will be lass cars and buses there because of all the extra people using the subsidized trains. Win for all I say.

 

 

 

There is (AFAIK) only one UNsubsidised public transport commuter route in NZ. I use it daily - Auckland to Waiheke Ferry.


Batman
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  #1564957 3-Jun-2016 12:13
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trig42:

 

Davy:
wasabi2k:

 

trig42:

 

 

 

(I'm sure the Chinese could do it!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like the rails to not bend and last more than 12 months so no thanks.

 



China has some of the best rail technology and infrastructure in the world, I thought?

 

Me too - and look what they did prior to the 2008 Olympics - so much infrastructure, so fast, much labour.

 

 

It depends - you either get really good stuff - eg branded stuff like Apple products,

 

or really useless junk.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


ratsun81
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  #1565002 3-Jun-2016 12:44
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Davy:
Krishant007:

 

Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.

 

 

 

And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.

 

 

 

Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 

 

 

 

I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 

 

 

 

I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 

 



Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?

 

 

 

You do realise that with the current situation at Britomart there is NO possibility of supporting trains from the North Shore until the rail link is built right? 

 

 

 

Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.

 

 

 

 

 

 


trig42
5045 posts

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  #1565010 3-Jun-2016 12:52
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ratsun81:

 

 

 

Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.

 

 

 

 

I saw that somewhere (TransportBlog I think). How shortsighted can they be? If the build another 6 lanes over the harbor, where are they planning to dump all those extra cars?? The motorway north, and the CBD, Central Motorway Junction and Motorway South cannot handle another 3 lanes of traffic in either direction. Stupid. Light Rail makes the most sense (even Driverless Light Rail).


ratsun81
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  #1565024 3-Jun-2016 13:09
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trig42:

 

ratsun81:

 

 

 

Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.

 

 

 

 

I saw that somewhere (TransportBlog I think). How shortsighted can they be? If the build another 6 lanes over the harbor, where are they planning to dump all those extra cars?? The motorway north, and the CBD, Central Motorway Junction and Motorway South cannot handle another 3 lanes of traffic in either direction. Stupid. Light Rail makes the most sense (even Driverless Light Rail).

 

 

 

 

As someone that drives over the Harbour Bridge every day i couldn't agree more. There is no bottle neck at the bridge, in fact that is probably one of the least congested parts of the trip. 

 

Also have to say that when i was able to use the busway it was awesome, 20 minutes to work vs 50 in a car. Light rail would probably be even faster?

 

 


Batman
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  #1565033 3-Jun-2016 13:20
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ratsun81:

 

trig42:

 

ratsun81:

 

 

 

Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.

 

 

 

 

I saw that somewhere (TransportBlog I think). How shortsighted can they be? If the build another 6 lanes over the harbor, where are they planning to dump all those extra cars?? The motorway north, and the CBD, Central Motorway Junction and Motorway South cannot handle another 3 lanes of traffic in either direction. Stupid. Light Rail makes the most sense (even Driverless Light Rail).

 

 

 

 

As someone that drives over the Harbour Bridge every day i couldn't agree more. There is no bottle neck at the bridge, in fact that is probably one of the least congested parts of the trip. 

 

Also have to say that when i was able to use the busway it was awesome, 20 minutes to work vs 50 in a car. Light rail would probably be even faster?

 

 

 

 

If they don't want to build another bridge, could they use one lane (ok maybe need 2) and plug an LRT onto it





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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