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162 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1565066 3-Jun-2016 14:23
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ratsun81:

Davy:
Krishant007:


Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.


 


And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.


 


Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 


 


I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 


 


I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 




Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?


 


You do realise that with the current situation at Britomart there is NO possibility of supporting trains from the North Shore until the rail link is built right? 


 


Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.


 


 


 



Yes, I can see that the CRL is worth doing. Otherwise trains just go into Britomart and have to reverse back out, which is hopelessly inefficient. But where are the plans for North Shore stations to be built at the same time as the CRL or immediately after?

That's the objection - the Auckland council treats the North Shore as a newly gifted cash cow to provide themselves with gold-plated train services while Shore residents are stuck in motorways and having to keep buying cars and petrol. This in return for massive rates increases.

100% agree on your last point - NZTA's idiotic motorway tunnel just makes things worse by literally entrenching the commitment to more traffic.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1565071 3-Jun-2016 14:35
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Davy:
ratsun81:

Davy:
Krishant007:


Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.


 


And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.


 


Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 


 


I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 


 


I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 




Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?


 


You do realise that with the current situation at Britomart there is NO possibility of supporting trains from the North Shore until the rail link is built right? 


 


Also of note is the recent plans by NZTA for the 2nd harbour crossing without provision for rail. Looks like they would rather spend 4 billion of everyones money for moar roads, we dont just need roads we need alternative transport methods to be sure we arent going to continuously be stuck in gridlock.


 


 


 



Yes, I can see that the CRL is worth doing. Otherwise trains just go into Britomart and have to reverse back out, which is hopelessly inefficient. But where are the plans for North Shore stations to be built at the same time as the CRL or immediately after?

That's the objection - the Auckland council treats the North Shore as a newly gifted cash cow to provide themselves with gold-plated train services while Shore residents are stuck in motorways and having to keep buying cars and petrol. This in return for massive rates increases.

100% agree on your last point - NZTA's idiotic motorway tunnel just makes things worse by literally entrenching the commitment to more traffic.


We have the Northern Busway...

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1565074 3-Jun-2016 14:45
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the council invested in the Northern busway. I am not sure why this isnt obvious. There are currently no feasible ways to have trains servicing north shore, hence a dedicated northern busway that people living in north shore have been getting benefits from for quite a few years. 


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  Reply # 1565087 3-Jun-2016 14:50
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You cannot build a heavy rail extension to the shore without CRL or an additional (not second as the upper harbour highway is the 2nd!) harbour crossing that is at least rail only (and preferable as there is not the network connections at either side of the harbour to support the additional traffic that would be induced).  Auckland Transport would like to be build the rail to the shore, but is limited by capital funds; both rate payer and also government funded... It has taken 3 years to get the government to fund 3 years early than they wanted and that was after they had originally said no.  Rail to the shore is in planning, much like other aspects of transport planning but is not generally revealed until far more work is done, predominately at the indicative business case level and that funding is understood and established... In the meantime there is the northern busway, and with the new network roll out and integrated fares that should make it easier to use until rail comes along...


162 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1565109 3-Jun-2016 15:15
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Benoire:

You cannot build a heavy rail extension to the shore without CRL or an additional (not second as the upper harbour highway is the 2nd!) harbour crossing that is at least rail only (and preferable as there is not the network connections at either side of the harbour to support the additional traffic that would be induced).  Auckland Transport would like to be build the rail to the shore, but is limited by capital funds; both rate payer and also government funded... It has taken 3 years to get the government to fund 3 years early than they wanted and that was after they had originally said no.  Rail to the shore is in planning, much like other aspects of transport planning but is not generally revealed until far more work is done, predominately at the indicative business case level and that funding is understood and established... In the meantime there is the northern busway, and with the new network roll out and integrated fares that should make it easier to use until rail comes along...



Good points (and above posters too) but is there actual evidence of Auckland Transport planning for a rail network that covers the whole city, because if there is I can't find it.

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  Reply # 1565112 3-Jun-2016 15:16
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I can't say as I do work for AT, but there are complete plans for the network that exist in the strategic space for the next 30 years...


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  Reply # 1565157 3-Jun-2016 16:31
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Davy:
Krishant007:

 

Agreed with the above comment. Whether you live in Auckland or you dont, you use the CRL, or dont, we are living in one country where Auckland is the main hub and we should be able to offer a very good transport network to the citizens. If you dont live in Auckland, thats fine. You live in NZ. CRL impacts Auckland. Auckland impacts NZ.

 

 

 

And also agreed that this should have been done a lot earlier! Would have eased the congestion now.

 

 

 

Argument for not having a second harbour crossing at the moment is that there isnt a need for it now. There WILL be a need for it in 20 years time. At that time, we would be saying, yes we needed to have the harbour crossing planned 10 years ago. So it would be the same story as CRL. 

 

 

 

I understand only 1 massive infrastructure project at a time, but I believe it would be a good idea that the current infrastructure projects are planned with a second harbour crossing in mind - it is inevitable, just a matter of time. 

 

 

 

I am quite happy with the CRL finally being done - I live in Auckland, I dont use the current rail system as much as I should. But once CRL is completed, I can assure you that my car will be off the roads during peak time. 

 



Good for you Krishant! You'll enjoy heavily subsidised rail travel while people on the Shore continue to be stuck in traffic with no rail stations planned even in five or ten years. There's 41 railway stations in Auckland and not one of them on the Shore, so where should the priority be?

 

You'll be completely screwed if something goes wrong with the harbor bridge.  They shouldn't be waiting 20 years plus to build a second crossing.  The should be starting it now and include rail as a part of it..





Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1565203 3-Jun-2016 16:43
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As someone who suffers the commute from the west, I would like AT to think about the other end of the journey. What is the point of bus lanes and ferry's if there's nowhere to park your &#@*! car to catch public transport. Not all of us live within walking distance a terminus. Northshore Park and Rides are full by 6.30 in the morning, so what the hell, you may as well just hit the motorway and park in town.

I did like Paul Henry's comment this morning. He said Len Brown wants a world class city and his performance at yesterday's opening was a world class embarrassment (dancing fool).




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  Reply # 1565228 3-Jun-2016 16:55
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Davy:

Yes, I can see that the CRL is worth doing. Otherwise trains just go into Britomart and have to reverse back out, which is hopelessly inefficient. But where are the plans for North Shore stations to be built at the same time as the CRL or immediately after?

That's the objection - the Auckland council treats the North Shore as a newly gifted cash cow to provide themselves with gold-plated train services while Shore residents are stuck in motorways and having to keep buying cars and petrol. This in return for massive rates increases.

100% agree on your last point - NZTA's idiotic motorway tunnel just makes things worse by literally entrenching the commitment to more traffic.

 

The existing harbour bridge is too steep for trains to cross it. For a train to cross the Waitemata we need a new, flatter, bridge.....or a flatter tunnel. The existing Northern Busway is designed to be converted to light rail if that is necessary. 

 

Any new harbour crossing should provide for rail. Not doing so is just the truck/bus lobby being the hand inside the glove for THIS government. Get a new government and that will all change. 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1565232 3-Jun-2016 17:02
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Dingbatt: As someone who suffers the commute from the west, I would like AT to think about the other end of the journey. What is the point of bus lanes and ferry's if there's nowhere to park your &#@*! car to catch public transport. Not all of us live within walking distance a terminus. Northshore Park and Rides are full by 6.30 in the morning, so what the hell, you may as well just hit the motorway and park in town.

I did like Paul Henry's comment this morning. He said Len Brown wants a world class city and his performance at yesterday's opening was a world class embarrassment (dancing fool).

 

Park and Rides have an unfortunately high and disproportiante operating cost and the land use is better served for other uses if its not completely rural.  The operating costs should be shifted out to increased shuttle services serving the communities and feeding the main back bones (e.g. RT/FT networks).  AT Metro has chosen Jaret Walkers ridership model as their model and as such catchments aren't dealt with in the same way and so we'll have some way to go before shuttle services can occur.

 

With the increase of end of trip cycle facilities being planned for the stations, in time you could always cycle to the station and catch the train in?


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  Reply # 1565233 3-Jun-2016 17:03
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Can you increase rates in Auckland for foreign property owners?

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  Reply # 1565235 3-Jun-2016 17:04
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Linuxluver:

 

Davy:

Yes, I can see that the CRL is worth doing. Otherwise trains just go into Britomart and have to reverse back out, which is hopelessly inefficient. But where are the plans for North Shore stations to be built at the same time as the CRL or immediately after?

That's the objection - the Auckland council treats the North Shore as a newly gifted cash cow to provide themselves with gold-plated train services while Shore residents are stuck in motorways and having to keep buying cars and petrol. This in return for massive rates increases.

100% agree on your last point - NZTA's idiotic motorway tunnel just makes things worse by literally entrenching the commitment to more traffic.

 

The existing harbour bridge is too steep for trains to cross it. For a train to cross the Waitemata we need a new, flatter, bridge.....or a flatter tunnel. The existing Northern Busway is designed to be converted to light rail if that is necessary. 

 

Any new harbour crossing should provide for rail. Not doing so is just the truck/bus lobby being the hand inside the glove for THIS government. Get a new government and that will all change. 

 

 

Yes, the heavy rail solution would not work on the bridge or the northwestern, grades need to be around 2% ideally... the CRL main climb is about 8% I think and the electrics are only just able to make it, i.e. that's their max design grade parameter.  Light rail will do the bridge and northern and can act a spine for services of to takapuna etc... If you do it right with the connections you *could* run LRT from the shore all the way to the airport via the CBD if you wanted...


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  Reply # 1565237 3-Jun-2016 17:05
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joker97: Can you increase rates in Auckland for foreign property owners?

 

Not without a legislation change at government level; the Council's are quite limited in what they can do and how they rate as its a controlled process.


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  Reply # 1565238 3-Jun-2016 17:06
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Dingbatt: As someone who suffers the commute from the west, I would like AT to think about the other end of the journey. What is the point of bus lanes and ferry's if there's nowhere to park your &#@*! car to catch public transport. Not all of us live within walking distance a terminus. Northshore Park and Rides are full by 6.30 in the morning, so what the hell, you may as well just hit the motorway and park in town.

I did like Paul Henry's comment this morning. He said Len Brown wants a world class city and his performance at yesterday's opening was a world class embarrassment (dancing fool).

 

We choose where to live. Each house I have bought in Auckland over the years was / is within a 5 minute walk of at least a bus stop on a major route....or a train station.   

 

Even so....it's possible to drive near a bus stop and park one's car on the street nearby early in the morning. On my street in Greenlane people do exactly this......then walk to either the train station or out to Great South Road and get a bus. During the day, our street is packed with cars such people. 

 

What's the answer here? Proximity to public transport should be a key consideration when deciding where to live. If for no other reason than - like a former co-worker of mine - one day something happens (stroke, eye injury, whatever) and you can't drive a car anymore. Then what do you? You have no Plan B......though maybe you can ride a bike like my former colleague.

 

I've been watching people choose car-dependent locations.....then something happens and they have absolutely no option but to shift because without the car they can't go anywhere. They also seem to forget their kids can't drive, either....and having a bus for them to ride to school or wherever removes a huge time burden from busy parents.   

 

I've taken the buses from New Lynn station to and through Titarangi. The service is pretty good. The trains from New Lynn are frequent and go right downtown (via Newmarket). 

 

But it's hard to get people to change how they think. My own mother is 80 and diabetic and now must be tested for driving every two years and medically assessed to both diabetes and dementia (standard). So where does she live? Somewhere that is only practical if she can drive a car. "I'm not taking any bus!" she cries........but one day soon there won't be a choice in it....and at 81 or 82 she will have to find somewhere else to live where she CAN get a bus......or she won't be going anywhere.  On that day, she wil have to pay the price of such a place. Shame she didn't lock it in much cheaper years ago. She just didn't think. 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1565241 3-Jun-2016 17:13
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years ago, people used to move closer to their places of work and had to do so because the network was catered for cars so much; since the 70s we've built capacity exclusively for cars and people have got used to the idea that living on the shore but working in the south was a perfectly fine thing to do...


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