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  Reply # 1565286 3-Jun-2016 18:16
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geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

Sorry, you think you get no benefit from paying tax?





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  Reply # 1565327 3-Jun-2016 18:45
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geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).

 

Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?

 

Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1565329 3-Jun-2016 18:47
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I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.


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  Reply # 1565382 3-Jun-2016 20:29
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shk292:

 

I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.

 

 

Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.





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  Reply # 1565417 3-Jun-2016 21:50
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Peppery:

 

It's a loan, not a gift.

 

 

 

 

It's in the name, always has been.

 

 

 

No one signs up for the student gift scheme. 

 

That's called the allowance, which only genuinely poor or very well off people with family businesses get.


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  Reply # 1565431 3-Jun-2016 22:57
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Sam91:
BTR:

 

shk292:

 

 

 

nathan:
Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.

 

 

 

It's still John Key's fault - stop trying to change the subject, Dory

 

 

 

We should write off all loans until we've changed taxation law to close all loopholes.  Except loans to rich pricks, we should double the interest on those wink

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree education should be free but how are we going to afford that, will you pay an extra $100 per week to supplement this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also how do you deal with someone that spends years at uni constantly changing their mind on what they want to study.

 



Exactly, I'm a student and I believe the current system is a good balance. Anyone can get a loan, therefore anyone can get an education. The current system holds you accountable. Make it free and you can just fart around without any consequences. Even with the current loan system, many do just that.

In saying that, certain qualifications should be heavily subsidised to address skill shortages.

 

 

 

Did people fart around with no consequences when they did not have to pay themselves (other than through general taxation of course) or would that be a modern thing?






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  Reply # 1565432 3-Jun-2016 22:58
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ajobbins:

 

shk292:

 

I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.

 

 

Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.

 

 

Yep, which is why education, including tertiary, is hugely subsidised by the taxpayer.  But asking students to invest in their future is a reasonable compromise


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  Reply # 1565433 3-Jun-2016 23:00
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geekiegeek:

 

Linuxluver:

 

MikeB4:
Linuxluver:

 

nathan:

 

 

 


Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.

 

 

 

That's the hard part. 

Students shouldn't need to borrow money to go to Uni. John Key didn't. 

 



So you are happy to pay more tax to fund it?

 

Absolutely. Bring it on. 

 

 

Raise taxes, that will help people afford houses. 

 

While we are winding back the clock to free education we might as well bring back Muldoon, close all pubs at 11pm and put a price freeze on. Yeah lets all go back to the 70's :-)

 

 

 

 

Well, at least the music was better...! cool






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  Reply # 1565457 4-Jun-2016 05:34
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dejadeadnz:

 

geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).

 

Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?

 

Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit, I get no "direct benefit", happy?





When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


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  Reply # 1565458 4-Jun-2016 05:59
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Linuxluver:

MikeB4:
Linuxluver:


nathan:


 



Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.


 


That's the hard part. 

Students shouldn't need to borrow money to go to Uni. John Key didn't. 




So you are happy to pay more tax to fund it?


Absolutely. Bring it on. 



Now you just need to find enough people to vote Labour/Greens in and we'll have the free education policy. My 70 year old mum always wanted to do an Arts Degree now she'll be able to.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/budget-2016/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504046&objectid=11643537

So far Labour have promised $2.7B a year additional spending = GST @ 17.5% or 45% tax rate over $70K. This is before the lolly scramble of election policies surely to be announced

Really cant see them winning promising to raise taxes

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  Reply # 1565459 4-Jun-2016 06:05
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ajobbins:

shk292:


I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course


There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.



Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.



When something is "free" you'll have bludger losers queuing up at Uni to do Bullshi@ degrees that are worthless in the real world.

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  Reply # 1565468 4-Jun-2016 07:46
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geekiegeek:

dejadeadnz:


geekiegeek:


Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 



The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).


Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?


Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.


 


 



Edit, I get no "direct benefit", happy?



Yes you do, think about iit




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1565493 4-Jun-2016 08:52
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BTR: Also how do you deal with someone that spends years at uni constantly changing their mind on what they want to study.


A few changes have been put in place but still room for abuse:

There is now a 7 year (equivalent full time) lifetime limit on student loans. So if one dithers doing a little bit of this and that after 7 years no more loans for them.

Student allowance is limited to 200 weeks (5 years full time study). When one is over 40, it reduces to 120 weeks (3 years).

Also Canterbury for one kicks you out after 2 years of not passing half, so I guess to get past 2 years one needs to actually be going to class and doing the work.

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  Reply # 1565510 4-Jun-2016 09:34
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mudguard: I would think that a bank would try and collect, fail, write it off after sending it Baycorp. Who fail to collect. Then after seven years it's gone. Unlike a student loan, that keeps on growing.


Bankruptcy wipes Student loans. How does this apply to overseas students? Do they have to be in NZ to declare bankruptcy? Or be resident so many days to be able to do it?

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  Reply # 1565511 4-Jun-2016 09:34
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The current system seems pretty fair to me. The government pays most of the tuition costs through subsidies to tertiary providers, pays allowances to people who meet age and income tests, and provides subsidised loan scheme to enable people to pay the balance of their tuition costs and living costs if they don't qualify for an allowance - which is interest-free and doesn't have to be paid back until you earn a certain level.

 

That seems like a reasonable split between the individual (who benefits from their own education) and taxpayers (recognising that society benefits from education as well). Personally, I have no appetite to pay more taxes to increase the generosity of the scheme.

 

I was certainly happy with it when I studied - although I worked all the way through to minimise the debt I ran up.

 

But fundamentally no sympathy from me for the person in question. They knowingly entered into a loan agreement, skipped the country and never made the payments they had agreed to make, and are now bleating when they are caught for doing so.

 

Try doing that with a finance company!


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