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radomatic
93 posts

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  #1568896 9-Jun-2016 19:20
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How much of Voda's lack of income is to do with their financial arrangements? The underlying profit of the VF NZ business is quite good really.

 

And Spark should be worried. Their media posturing implies they are. And certainly the shareholders are, given the performance of my Spark shares since the announcement.


tdgeek
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  #1568903 9-Jun-2016 19:25
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radomatic:

How much of Voda's lack of income is to do with their financial arrangements? The underlying profit of the VF NZ business is quite good really.


And Spark should be worried. Their media posturing implies they are. And certainly the shareholders are, given the performance of my Spark shares since the announcement.



Voda has 37% share of BB. Mobile close to half I guess and they lose money. The core business loses money. One could say that sky can subsidise them but the bottom line is Voda needs to earn a profit and sky has its own challenges with SVOD. It's maybe not the healthiest of situations

 
 
 
 


ockel
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  #1568921 9-Jun-2016 19:41
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jarledb:

 

ockel:

 

 

 

Do you have to be a Spark customer to get Lightbox?

 

 

Is this a rhetorical question? 

 

No, you don't have to be a Spark customer to get Lightbox.

 

 

Yes its a rhetorical question.  The "really smart" people at TUANZ seem to think that you might have to be a VOD customer to get Sky.  Despite the counterfactual that is already in the marketplace.  And the myth is perpetuating because media dont know that Lightbox is owned by Spark but you dont have to be a Spark customer to get Lightbox.  Who knew that Lightbox or Sky want to sell their wares to everyone?

 

Imagine if the 29% of households that take VOD are suddenly the only ones allowed Sky.  Suddenly Sky has to switch off its signal to 20% of households - assuming a perfect overlap.  Really dumb comments from TUANZ.  Really dumb comments by NZ media.

 

BTW, the CEO of VOD NZ has said that there will be no exclusive deals.  Surprise.


ockel
1780 posts

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  #1568924 9-Jun-2016 19:49
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tdgeek:
radomatic:

 

How much of Voda's lack of income is to do with their financial arrangements? The underlying profit of the VF NZ business is quite good really.

 

 

 

And Spark should be worried. Their media posturing implies they are. And certainly the shareholders are, given the performance of my Spark shares since the announcement.

 



Voda has 37% share of BB. Mobile close to half I guess and they lose money. The core business loses money. One could say that sky can subsidise them but the bottom line is Voda needs to earn a profit and sky has its own challenges with SVOD. It's maybe not the healthiest of situations

 

Have a read of the VOD financials before you decide that VOD loses money.

 

EBITDA of c450m.  Capex of c300m (and forecast to fall).  Still a healthy Freecashflow.  The losses are based on debt (ie financial engineering)

 

And by the ComCom's reckoning VOD only has 29% share of BB.


radomatic
93 posts

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  #1568938 9-Jun-2016 20:08
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ockel:

 

tdgeek:
radomatic:

 

How much of Voda's lack of income is to do with their financial arrangements? The underlying profit of the VF NZ business is quite good really.

 

 

 

And Spark should be worried. Their media posturing implies they are. And certainly the shareholders are, given the performance of my Spark shares since the announcement.

 



Voda has 37% share of BB. Mobile close to half I guess and they lose money. The core business loses money. One could say that sky can subsidise them but the bottom line is Voda needs to earn a profit and sky has its own challenges with SVOD. It's maybe not the healthiest of situations

 

Have a read of the VOD financials before you decide that VOD loses money.

 

EBITDA of c450m.  Capex of c300m (and forecast to fall).  Still a healthy Freecashflow.  The losses are based on debt (ie financial engineering)

 

And by the ComCom's reckoning VOD only has 29% share of BB.

 

 

My point exactly. A quick glance at VF's financials reveals this. Or even a look at the slides from today's presentation linked to form the Herald, or you could even read NBR's analysis of VF's financials for the same conclusions.

 

Vodafone's losses in NZ are purely a result of financial engineering - that much is clear. The underlying business is profitable (although not to the same extent as Spark for example).

 

We also know that Sky are profitable per their own financials so no issue there. And you know, I'd wager that a lot of Vodafone's costs would be easy to cut as well if you wanted to extract some extra profit out of it.


radomatic
93 posts

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  #1568940 9-Jun-2016 20:12
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Further - tdgeek you are right Sky have troubles with SVOD. Who doesn't?

Spark shareholders are looking into the black hole of Lightbox which has sucked up millions of dollars from Spark Group and looks set to continue do so. All with no return on investment at this point. Subscriber numbers don't look huge and content costs will only go up from here. Lightbox Sports is clearly not a success - they haven't even bid on the rights for any of the content that would potentially draw subscribers. Spark also won't talk financials of Lightbox (or indeed any of their Ventures businesses) - somehow I think it's unlikely that there are massive profits hidden here.

 

That said - the combined Skodafone is probably big enough to weather a pissing war in streaming with Spark. Though I'm pretty sure only one can survive, and a combined Skodafone certainly will have the upper hand in content.


Bobdn
222 posts

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  #1568962 9-Jun-2016 20:32

I'm with Spark UFB now. However, if Vodafone threw in Neon for free for ever (like Spark offers Lightbox for free), I'd switch as soon as my 12 month contract is up.  Neon has enough content for me to keep me happy.

 

Spark has set a nice precedent: it's ok to offer your existing broad band customers exclusive content for free.  


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #1568975 9-Jun-2016 20:48
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radomatic:

 

Further - tdgeek you are right Sky have troubles with SVOD. Who doesn't?

 

What I mean is that SVOD defaults to $13 per month, whereas Sky is a LOT more, which means Sky is expensive. But the $13 is probably a loss leader, as NF, LB and Neoon lose money. 

Spark shareholders are looking into the black hole of Lightbox which has sucked up millions of dollars from Spark Group and looks set to continue do so. All with no return on investment at this point. Subscriber numbers don't look huge and content costs will only go up from here.

 

LB is an added value to Spark BB Customers, its pretty good.

 

 

 

Lightbox Sports is clearly not a success - they haven't even bid on the rights for any of the content that would potentially draw subscribers. Spark also won't talk financials of Lightbox (or indeed any of their Ventures businesses) - somehow I think it's unlikely that there are massive profits hidden here. Its added value 

 

That said - the combined Skodafone is probably big enough to weather a pissing war in streaming with Spark. Though I'm pretty sure only one can survive, and a combined Skodafone certainly will have the upper hand in content.

 

 

Latter point. I see these comparisons but its not TV1 vs TV3, they are all different with not that much overlap.

 

NF has old movies and old TV shows, BUT it has its own exclusives - Good

 

LB has only TV shows, but newer and exclusives - Good

 

Neon is HBO, when it gets HD soon - Good

 

Sky has nothing of volume (movies and TV), but its a great smorgasbord, a bit of everything for everyone, on one box, recording, - Good

 

They are all different. A movie buff will go one way, a TV binger buff will go another, a family wanting a bit of everything will go another.

 

Some will opt for multi ( I have NF, LB, Curiostystream, and FanPass)

 

 

 

Its not like all are NF and NF copiers, each has a differ slant. Ironically, some will have 2 or 3 plus FanPass. Not a lot different to Sky Basic +Sports cost???

 

While Lightbox is a free addon for many, VodaSky cant do that, and thats no issue.All of us have a tipping point of $ per month.

 

Edit: radomatic. My post does appear to counter yours, but I do hear you.

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1568981 9-Jun-2016 20:53
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Bobdn:

 

I'm with Spark UFB now. However, if Vodafone threw in Neon for free for ever (like Spark offers Lightbox for free), I'd switch as soon as my 12 month contract is up.  Neon has enough content for me to keep me happy.

 

Spark has set a nice precedent: it's ok to offer your existing broad band customers exclusive content for free.  

 

 

For sure. Im not sure where VodaSky can go with that though as Voda loses money and Sky makes money, but only at $15 per sub per month. There is a limit for everyone.

 

Over time, and with adjustments there will be equilibrium

 

But Sky still has to manage the move from costly satellite to SVOD, VodaSky or not, that doesnt change.


Batman
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  #1569008 9-Jun-2016 21:23
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Hopefully the telemarketers will retain their "special" deal ... I've stopped a month+ ago, waiting out my 3 month lock out ...





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Geektastic
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  #1569070 9-Jun-2016 23:13
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Rikkitic:

 

We don't have it and never will. I hear things about amazing new RBI technology in the pipeline but I live in fear of being left behind again, just like we were with dial-up. Already I see more and more streaming services going to adaptive HD with no option to choose a fixed lower resolution, often making streams unwatchable for us depending on time of day and other variables as the download speed keeps jumping around. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Zip chance out here until Fibre is the equivalent of ADSL...!

 

 

 

I've had to give up online backups, as they simply cannot be completed at 1.2Mbps.






richms
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  #1569071 9-Jun-2016 23:15
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joker97:

 

Hopefully the telemarketers will retain their "special" deal ... I've stopped a month+ ago, waiting out my 3 month lock out ...

 

 

If you want it back just get someone else to apply for it in the house. Its the person that is not able to get it, bit the address.





Richard rich.ms

stevenz
2788 posts

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  #1569149 10-Jun-2016 09:11
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I've had such painful experiences with Clear\Telstra\Vodafone & Sky in the past, that at this stage they could offer me totally free internet+TV and I'd still prefer to pay an alternative provider. Unless they manage to _drastically_ improve their customer service on both as a result of this merger, which seems unlikely, this won't change.

 

But I guess they'll survive ok for a while, because Rugby.

 

 





ockel
1780 posts

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  #1569199 10-Jun-2016 10:12
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radomatic:

 

Further - tdgeek you are right Sky have troubles with SVOD. Who doesn't?

Spark shareholders are looking into the black hole of Lightbox which has sucked up millions of dollars from Spark Group and looks set to continue do so. All with no return on investment at this point. Subscriber numbers don't look huge and content costs will only go up from here. Lightbox Sports is clearly not a success - they haven't even bid on the rights for any of the content that would potentially draw subscribers. Spark also won't talk financials of Lightbox (or indeed any of their Ventures businesses) - somehow I think it's unlikely that there are massive profits hidden here.

 

That said - the combined Skodafone is probably big enough to weather a pissing war in streaming with Spark. Though I'm pretty sure only one can survive, and a combined Skodafone certainly will have the upper hand in content.

 

 

And LightboxSports...... aiming to compete in the sport OTT market in NZ.

 

Lost the EPL rights - may or may not get them back.  Apparently RadioSport says Sky has it back.

 

Lost (or didnt renew) Top14 French Rugby rights.

 

Has now said goodbye to golf (European PGA went awhile ago, PGA and LPGA announced as back to Sky).

 

Didnt bid for NRL.  

 

It would seem that LightboxSports aspirations to grow were anything but.  It will, however, save costs for reinvesting in the pot-of-gold called general entertainment.


MikeAqua
6058 posts

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  #1569484 10-Jun-2016 15:37
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VF+Sky may offer consumers positive choices.  For example might offer un-metered data for Sky OD or discounted package deals (UFB + TV + Mobile).





Mike


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