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Batman
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  #1582892 29-Jun-2016 18:43
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ajobbins:

 

joker97:

 

 

 

'm not sure if the ball is in GB's court. As far as the EU is concerned, UK is out. They have 2 years to get out nicely, or they lose everything.

 

 

This is only true once they formally give notice under Article 50

 

 

Hmm ... that's not what the papers said, maybe I missed the triggering bit ...


 
 
 

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dejadeadnz
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  #1582921 29-Jun-2016 19:28
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/81590743/robert-scollay-a-brexitfree-lunch-for-britain-probably-not

 

 

 

The "single market" is not simply about "free trade" in the widely understood sense of free trade in goods. It includes free trade in services, free movement of capital and free movement of labour. Free trade in services, which Britain needs to retain, itself involves substantial commitments involving free movement of people, for example in many categories of professional occupations. Even free trade in goods requires compliance with EU technical standards and other relevant laws and regulations. And legal disputes related to the "single market" are adjudicated by the European Court of Justice.

 

It is true that Norway and the other two members of the European Economic Area (EEA) participate fully in the EU single market without being members of the EU. But under this arrangement they still have to follow all relevant EU rules, regulations, and the numerous single-market- related policies, without having any say in the ways they may be changed in future. This includes full compliance with EU rules on people movement.

 

EEA members also make contributions to the EU budget that on a pro rata basis may be comparable to what Britain currently pays. Switzerland has a similar arrangement with the EU. For Switzerland and the EEA members there is even an EFTA Court that handles single market-related disputes, in parallel to the European Court of Justice.

 

In other words there is no precedent for the scenario that Boris Johnson is painting, in which Britain retains the full benefit of the single market while rejecting EU rules on people movement, freeing itself from the need to comply with EU laws and regulations, and avoiding contributions to the EU budget.

 

The sheer mendacity of the leave camp politicians and the utter stupidity of many of the anti-immigration, illiberal crowd that bought their promises is becoming ever more apparent. But who cares about what the experts say? We've had enough of experts!

 

 

 

 


shk292
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  #1582944 29-Jun-2016 20:18
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dejadeadnz:

 

The sheer mendacity of the leave camp politicians and the utter stupidity of many of the anti-immigration, illiberal crowd that bought their promises is becoming ever more apparent. But who cares about what the experts say? We've had enough of experts!

 

 

Those "Liberals" are certainly very liberal with their insults...

 

It's clear that UK doesn't want to be ruled by EU and wants control of its borders.  Whether this can be done while still retaining free trade is yet to be seen, but to me the point of the referendum is that it prioritizes the former over the latter.

 

There are quite a few countries which enjoy international trade without being a member of the EU or the EEA, and without giving up control of their legislation and borders to an undemocratic entity.   I think the UK wants to be one of these, and this seems to me to be a reasonable aspiration.  It may not fit with the continent-wide socialist mega-state that the wankocracy would prefer, but that doesn't mean it is wrong or impossible




tdgeek
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  #1582953 29-Jun-2016 20:41
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dejadeadnz:

 

Fred99:

 

And an afterthought to media bias, perhaps the reason that the older and less well educated classes strongly favoured Brexit, while the young and successful favoured remain is an indictment on lack of neutrality in the print media, as older less well educated folks tend to read printed newspapers, younger people tend to read news on line - which can give access to a much broader range of opinion locally - as well as globally.

 

 

 

 

Oh my... did you repeat the truth that the older and less well educated tended to prefer Brexit? 

 

 

Oh my. Can we dispense with the pretentiousness please?


dejadeadnz
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  #1582957 29-Jun-2016 20:49
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shk292:

 

It's clear that UK doesn't want to be ruled by EU and wants control of its borders.  Whether this can be done while still retaining free trade is yet to be seen, but to me the point of the referendum is that it prioritizes the former over the latter.

 

There are quite a few countries which enjoy international trade without being a member of the EU or the EEA, and without giving up control of their legislation and borders to an undemocratic entity.   I think the UK wants to be one of these, and this seems to me to be a reasonable aspiration.  It may not fit with the continent-wide socialist mega-state that the wankocracy would prefer, but that doesn't mean it is wrong or impossible

 

 

 

 

Wankocracy? Boy that is a quality school yard insult. I hope it didn't take long to come up with this.

 

 

 

Let's address all your factual errors:

 

1. You are not actually addressing the point made by the Professor in that article. You can support Brexit because you think it's some terrible socialist, unaccountable behemoth blah blah (and whatever other random, ill-defined term that the Brexiters like to throw around) but it is fundamentally, morally and factually dishonest to claim, as the likes of Boris Johnson have, that somehow the UK can/will retain the free trade or preferred trading partner conditions akin to being a EU member without being an EU member and, more importantly, without accepting that sorts of conditions that the likes of Norway and Switzerland accept as non-EU members but members of the EEA.

 

2. Quite unbelievably, you appear to either confuse international trade with free trade or the single market approach enjoyed by EU/EEA members. If you don't understand that these aren't the same things, your ability to have an informed opinion on this issue is quite questionable.

 

As always, it really pays to read before writing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1582962 29-Jun-2016 20:53
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dejadeadnz:

 

shk292:

 

It's clear that UK doesn't want to be ruled by EU and wants control of its borders.  Whether this can be done while still retaining free trade is yet to be seen, but to me the point of the referendum is that it prioritizes the former over the latter.

 

There are quite a few countries which enjoy international trade without being a member of the EU or the EEA, and without giving up control of their legislation and borders to an undemocratic entity.   I think the UK wants to be one of these, and this seems to me to be a reasonable aspiration.  It may not fit with the continent-wide socialist mega-state that the wankocracy would prefer, but that doesn't mean it is wrong or impossible

 

 

 

 

Wankocracy? Boy that is a quality school yard insult. I hope it didn't take long to come up with this.

 

 

 

Let's address all your factual errors:

 

1. You are not actually addressing the point made by the Professor in that article. You can support Brexit because you think it's some terrible socialist, unaccountable behemoth blah blah (and whatever other random, ill-defined term that the Brexiters like to throw around) but it is fundamentally, morally and factually dishonest to claim, as the likes of Boris Johnson have, that somehow the UK can/will retain the free trade or preferred trading partner conditions akin to being a EU member without being an EU member and, more importantly, without accepting that sorts of conditions that the likes of Norway and Switzerland accept as non-EU members but members of the EEA.

 

2. Quite unbelievably, you appear to either confuse international trade with free trade or the single market approach enjoyed by EU/EEA members. If you don't understand that these aren't the same things, your ability to have an informed opinion on this issue is quite questionable.

 

As always, it really pays to read before writing. 

 

 

Oh my. Can we dispense with the pretentiousness please?

 

Please go to dictionary.com and revise the word "discussion"


dejadeadnz
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  #1582964 29-Jun-2016 20:58
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Are you actually going to discuss any of the points made or do you prefer to make the discussion about another user?

 

 

 

 




freitasm
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  #1582969 29-Jun-2016 21:04
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I am locking this discussion now as it seems it covered Brexit quite well already.





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