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  Reply # 1583571 30-Jun-2016 20:22
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A few thoughts:

 

- surely, the benefit, WFF, other factors such as accom allowance etc are calculated to allow people to provide their family with the necessities?  If the amount isn't sufficient, does it need to be reviewed?  Although it's worth noting that the current National govt has given the first increase in benefits above the CPI for some time

 

- kids shouldn't go hungry, full stop.  But, parents shouldn't be allowed to ignore their responsibilities.  Some form of checking and/or handout reduction needs to happen if extra benefit in the form of school meals is provided.  Otherwise, what's the point in me making lunch for my kids?

 

- Socialists are really good at spending other people's money to solve problems, and of late also seem really good at throwing insults around at those who disagree with them.  I don't think either of these are good approaches to solve problems.  That may make me sociopathic or mentally deficient in some self-righteous eyes, but ho-hum

 

- (see also the climate change thread) Population growth is a huge problem that isn't going away, and growth seems fastest in those least able to provide for their offspring.  There are those of use who procreate responsibly - I think anything over 2 offspring is irresponsible.  I don't think humankind can allow indefinite unlimited population growth, especially when "reverse Darwinism" seems to be occurring

 

- there needs to be motivation to do better for yourself and your family.  Life on the minimum wage with four kids should not be financially pleasant - but again, people are entitled to the necessities of life, especially young people who are not responsible for their situation


gzt

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  Reply # 1583626 30-Jun-2016 20:35
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It has become tougher at the bottom.

The silly number and rising number of visible homeless on the street in the Auckland suburbs give a good indication of that. High rents are probably a big factor. I saw the winz minister on tv saying there is a massive shortage of one bedroom properties.

It is not the same thing but we would be very stupid to think this increasing poverty is not going to impact families at the bottom also.

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  Reply # 1583636 30-Jun-2016 21:01
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The slums of India, Rio De Janeiro and so on will become a reality in New Zealand, as a nation the time to prevent this is running out. Poverty traps are real.

 

The biggest barrier to finding remedies is the NZ habit of blaming victims and our growing lack of empathy.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1583695 30-Jun-2016 21:23
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I agree. I still see no reason why having children should not be a licensed activity. Why should you not have to demonstrate you have an understanding of the responsibilities, the ability to provide and so on?

 

With the world population exploding, I cannot see how unrestricted breeding can continue, personally. Eventually it will have to be managed.

 

 

 

 

Don't worry, it will eventually. When we run out of food and water, and people starve to death by the millions (or Billions) and the population drops to a level we can sustain. 

 

My prediction is the next major war will not be over Fossil fuels, it will be over water. 

 

Humans are a particularly harmful type of parasite.

 

 


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  Reply # 1583700 30-Jun-2016 21:25
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MikeB4:

 

The slums of India, Rio De Janeiro and so on will become a reality in New Zealand, as a nation the time to prevent this is running out. Poverty traps are real.

 

The biggest barrier to finding remedies is the NZ habit of blaming victims and our growing lack of empathy.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but that is a crazy thing to say. I am just wondering if you have BEEN to those places and seen it for yourself? NZ "relatively" does not understand poverty compared to those countries and we are a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way from it. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583701 30-Jun-2016 21:28
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shk292:

 

A few thoughts:

 

- surely, the benefit, WFF, other factors such as accom allowance etc are calculated to allow people to provide their family with the necessities?  If the amount isn't sufficient, does it need to be reviewed?  Although it's worth noting that the current National govt has given the first increase in benefits above the CPI for some time

 

- kids shouldn't go hungry, full stop.  But, parents shouldn't be allowed to ignore their responsibilities.  Some form of checking and/or handout reduction needs to happen if extra benefit in the form of school meals is provided.  Otherwise, what's the point in me making lunch for my kids?

 

- Socialists are really good at spending other people's money to solve problems, and of late also seem really good at throwing insults around at those who disagree with them.  I don't think either of these are good approaches to solve problems.  That may make me sociopathic or mentally deficient in some self-righteous eyes, but ho-hum

 

- (see also the climate change thread) Population growth is a huge problem that isn't going away, and growth seems fastest in those least able to provide for their offspring.  There are those of use who procreate responsibly - I think anything over 2 offspring is irresponsible.  I don't think humankind can allow indefinite unlimited population growth, especially when "reverse Darwinism" seems to be occurring

 

- there needs to be motivation to do better for yourself and your family.  Life on the minimum wage with four kids should not be financially pleasant - but again, people are entitled to the necessities of life, especially young people who are not responsible for their situation

 

 

 

 

2) What do you expect the cost of that compliance checking would be? It would be far cheaper to just feed kids who are indentified as in need.  What is the point in feeding your kids lunch? Probably because what you provide them is nicer than the food they are being given as part of Govt sponsored meals (which provide the most basic requirements only). 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583703 30-Jun-2016 21:30
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networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

The slums of India, Rio De Janeiro and so on will become a reality in New Zealand, as a nation the time to prevent this is running out. Poverty traps are real.

 

The biggest barrier to finding remedies is the NZ habit of blaming victims and our growing lack of empathy.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but that is a crazy thing to say. I am just wondering if you have BEEN to those places and seen it for yourself? NZ "relatively" does not understand poverty compared to those countries and we are a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way from it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having worked at the front line of poverty I am very aware.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1583705 30-Jun-2016 21:35
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MikeB4:

 

networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

The slums of India, Rio De Janeiro and so on will become a reality in New Zealand, as a nation the time to prevent this is running out. Poverty traps are real.

 

The biggest barrier to finding remedies is the NZ habit of blaming victims and our growing lack of empathy.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but that is a crazy thing to say. I am just wondering if you have BEEN to those places and seen it for yourself? NZ "relatively" does not understand poverty compared to those countries and we are a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way from it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having worked at the front line of poverty I am very aware.

 

 

No, sorry, I can't agree with that. I believe you understand what *NZ* poverty is, but it's a long way from what other countries call poverty.

 

Poverty in NZ is NOT the same as in Indian slums. 

 

In NZ we have WELFARE. The people in Slums in India, they don't get ANYTHING from the Govt. In NZ people have options, emergency care is provided by the Government, and by multiple different organizations like the Salvation Army.

 

THAT is the difference, and the difference is HUGE. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583713 30-Jun-2016 21:43
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I have greater than 25 years involvement what has yours been?

I you read again my post said that the slums WILL become a reality I did NOT say they are now




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


gzt

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  Reply # 1583717 30-Jun-2016 21:45
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networkn:

MikeB4:


The slums of India, Rio De Janeiro and so on will become a reality in New Zealand, as a nation the time to prevent this is running out. Poverty traps are real.


The biggest barrier to finding remedies is the NZ habit of blaming victims and our growing lack of empathy.



 


I'm sorry, but that is a crazy thing to say. I am just wondering if you have BEEN to those places and seen it for yourself? NZ "relatively" does not understand poverty compared to those countries and we are a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way from it. 


Many of our grandparents and great-grandparents in NZ experienced great poverty in the 20's and 30's. They knew all about severe poverty and consistently voted and worked to get rid of it.

Then as now, inadequate housing was the root cause of so many of the issues.

The housing problem is severe.

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  Reply # 1583719 30-Jun-2016 21:48
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The growing housing crisis is going to trigger an explosion of poverty if action is not taken.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1583721 30-Jun-2016 21:49
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networkn:

 

 

 

No, sorry, I can't agree with that. I believe you understand what *NZ* poverty is, but it's a long way from what other countries call poverty.

 

Poverty in NZ is NOT the same as in Indian slums. 

 

In NZ we have WELFARE. The people in Slums in India, they don't get ANYTHING from the Govt. In NZ people have options, emergency care is provided by the Government, and by multiple different organizations like the Salvation Army.

 

THAT is the difference, and the difference is HUGE. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've evidently never volunteered or stepped anywhere near a community law centre or CAB if you think there's some kind of wide network of emergency assistance. Plenty of people who need emergency housing, for example, do not get it. Please, save the facile comparisons with India or whatever other tinpot place's slums. Some of us prefer to aim a bit higher, especially in a country of relative wealth.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583723 30-Jun-2016 21:52
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I you read again my post said that the slums WILL become a reality I did NOT say they are now

 

Neither Labour nor National, nor Greens nor Maori party will do away with Welfare, so as long as that is true, the poverty in NZ will not in the foreseeable future match that of India or any of the other *truly* poor parts of the world. 

 

I am not getting into a comparison thing with you, but my sister and my brother in law are both humanitarian workers in the poorer parts of the world for MANY years. 

 

I believe both of them would (and have) laughed out loud at the concept of "poverty" (By Global Standards) in New Zealand.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583724 30-Jun-2016 21:55
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Because, once again, how dare people of decency have a level of concern for the situation in our own community and not wanting things to get worse. I mean, who cares so long as we are better than India, right?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1583725 30-Jun-2016 21:56
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dejadeadnz:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

No, sorry, I can't agree with that. I believe you understand what *NZ* poverty is, but it's a long way from what other countries call poverty.

 

Poverty in NZ is NOT the same as in Indian slums. 

 

In NZ we have WELFARE. The people in Slums in India, they don't get ANYTHING from the Govt. In NZ people have options, emergency care is provided by the Government, and by multiple different organizations like the Salvation Army.

 

THAT is the difference, and the difference is HUGE. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've evidently never volunteered or stepped anywhere near a community law centre or CAB if you think there's some kind of wide network of emergency assistance. Plenty of people who need emergency housing, for example, do not get it. Please, save the facile comparisons with India or whatever other tinpot place's slums. Some of us prefer to aim a bit higher, especially in a country of relative wealth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't making that comparison, I was disputing that NZ has a globally comparable poverty problem, or that we will as long as ANY of the current political parties that compete for votes, are having ANY say.

 

 


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