Climate Change: Sh*t is getting real....and fast.

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#1615446 22-Aug-2016 08:06

Ps note I'm not saying our planet is just fine, it's not. So much non degradable rubbish we produce, particles in the air, rubbish in the waters, all kinds of animals (= food for me, and ecosystem for the rest) going extinct ... We are doomed.

But I'm not sure where co2 sits here. Another big bang theory argument where nobody knows i suppose.

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#1615448 22-Aug-2016 08:12

joker97: But I'm not sure where co2 sits here. Another big bang theory argument where nobody knows i suppose.

really? http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

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#1615455 22-Aug-2016 08:40

ubergeeknz:

joker97: But I'm not sure where co2 sits here. Another big bang theory argument where nobody knows i suppose.

really? http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Exactly "Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree"

It seems to be common fare that the non believers say that no one knows, when that clearly isnt the case. When you think of the amazing technology we have these days,

and that almost all scientists agree, its hard to argue against that.

jmh

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#1615531 22-Aug-2016 10:22

Some data on past climate from NIWA: https://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/clivar/pastclimate

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

An interesting theory on global cooling is that a solar minimum may be about to occur, as it has in the past, which leads to lower temperatures. Nothing too much to worry about in NZ - we will probably see drops of no more than 2 degC. It might put pressure on immigration though.

Some say that man-made global warming will trump the cooling caused by the minimum - since the minimum starts soon, we won't have long to wait to find out. In fact, some say the current 'pause' in warming is evidence that cooling has already begun - the sun has been quiet lately, so maybe they are right.

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#1615571 22-Aug-2016 10:47

jmh:

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

"In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet."

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

At this point if you don't think that human activity has had by far the most significant, if not the only significant, impact on global temperature rise in the past several hundred years, then you are saying so in the face of overwhelming evidence and research, aka, you are (with an exceptionally high degree of probability) wrong.

jmh

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#1615600 22-Aug-2016 11:08

ubergeeknz:

jmh:

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

"In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet."

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

At this point if you don't think that human activity has had by far the most significant, if not the only significant, impact on global temperature rise in the past several hundred years, then you are saying so in the face of overwhelming evidence and research, aka, you are (with an exceptionally high degree of probability) wrong.

Yeah, I've been in that position before - assured that the overwhelming evidence says I am wrong, leading to... well there may be some part of what you say is true.... well 'new' evidence concurs with what you say.... hey we always knew you were right.

One thing I have learned from many years on the planet is to think for yourself. Look at the evidence, read the data and analyse it. The fact that a lot of other people think something doesn't make it right.

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#1615606 22-Aug-2016 11:15

DarthKermit

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#1615675 22-Aug-2016 11:55

Whether or not the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere is significantly caused by humans and all our industrial/agricultural activities, etc is just one of the concerning things happening to our third rock from the sun.

Mass extinction of thousands of different species, depleted fish stocks, loss of all kinds of biodiversity, all that plastic we've dumped in the oceans, not to mention all the other sh!t we've dumped in the oceans, water ways and every other damned place we can find.

Is the human race screwed? I don't know. Perhaps the best thing we can do is reduce the world population instead of increasing it.

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#1615821 22-Aug-2016 14:42

jmh:

ubergeeknz:

jmh:

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

"In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet."

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

At this point if you don't think that human activity has had by far the most significant, if not the only significant, impact on global temperature rise in the past several hundred years, then you are saying so in the face of overwhelming evidence and research, aka, you are (with an exceptionally high degree of probability) wrong.

Yeah, I've been in that position before - assured that the overwhelming evidence says I am wrong, leading to... well there may be some part of what you say is true.... well 'new' evidence concurs with what you say.... hey we always knew you were right.

One thing I have learned from many years on the planet is to think for yourself. Look at the evidence, read the data and analyse it. The fact that a lot of other people think something doesn't make it right.

There is no doubt about the data. Everything has increased. Population, rubbish, CO2, other "greenhouse" gasses, sea levels, temperatures, etc.

But what caused what?

I say people caused it. Beyond that ... CO2? Something else?

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#1615943 22-Aug-2016 17:07

joker97:

jmh:

ubergeeknz:

jmh:

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

"In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet."

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

At this point if you don't think that human activity has had by far the most significant, if not the only significant, impact on global temperature rise in the past several hundred years, then you are saying so in the face of overwhelming evidence and research, aka, you are (with an exceptionally high degree of probability) wrong.

Yeah, I've been in that position before - assured that the overwhelming evidence says I am wrong, leading to... well there may be some part of what you say is true.... well 'new' evidence concurs with what you say.... hey we always knew you were right.

One thing I have learned from many years on the planet is to think for yourself. Look at the evidence, read the data and analyse it. The fact that a lot of other people think something doesn't make it right.

There is no doubt about the data. Everything has increased. Population, rubbish, CO2, other "greenhouse" gasses, sea levels, temperatures, etc.

But what caused what?

I say people caused it. Beyond that ... CO2? Something else?

The clincher for me is that there is no doubt that the planet has seen hot a cold periods, thats nothing new. The earth deals with that, and over time it stabilises. But when you add cream on the top, not from natural causes, thats a different matter.

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#1615958 22-Aug-2016 18:00

If you want to take a look at the ozone and UV levels around NZ, take a look at the NIWA site, they have a daily monitor there (I think the page is called 'uv and ozone').

It gets interesting around november onwards.

CO2 as I understand things has an impact on ozone production, the CO2 that we produce through our activity is called anthropogenic CO2.

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#1615996 22-Aug-2016 19:35

Hmm, I own property high enough that a rise in sea level will not affect me and I could do with a few more degrees throughout the year so this seems like a pretty nice development to me.

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#1616212 23-Aug-2016 10:40

ubergeeknz:

jmh:

My own view, having looked at the evidence, is that global warming has happened, but that it is unlikely to be man-made. We've had many times in the past when the climate was warmer than it is today, before the advent of the industrial age. I think we have just been through a global warm period and are possibly about to enter a cooling period, also as a result of natural variation.

"In its Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet."

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

At this point if you don't think that human activity has had by far the most significant, if not the only significant, impact on global temperature rise in the past several hundred years, then you are saying so in the face of overwhelming evidence and research, aka, you are (with an exceptionally high degree of probability) wrong.

> if not the only significant, impact ...

That's the type of rhetoric that gives us skeptics ammunition to ignore all the ranting that goes on. The ONLY significant impact? So what about:

Volcanoes
Increased thermal oceanic volcanic activity
solar climate where there are warm and cold patches (e.g. grapes grown clear across the UK in 1200's as it was warmer there then than it is now)
Ice ages
Ozone layer

and the list goes on.

Do we have an impact - yes.
Are we polluting our planet in very dumb ways? - yes
Should we seek better ways to look after our environment - yes.
Are we the sole arbitrators of global climatic change? No.

Also quoting a majority of scientists doesn't cut it either- too much BS and politics now days

Look - In the 70's the majority of scientists were sure we were going to run out of oil in 30 years - now we have more than ever. Science? no - Politics and scare mongering? Yes

It wasn't so long ago that the majority of scientists believed the earth was flat, the sun circled the earth, that we were the only planet etc etc etc

We are still fed BS about how bad radiation is for us when it obviously isn't as bad as made out when considering the high number of survivors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, near the epicenter, that lived well into their 80's and 90's. The cancer rates from them is way too low for what majority science tells us.

And to add boil to this pot - Darwinist Evolution - complete cobblers with no real evidence, now being debunked by genetic evidence all over the place. burn the tree of life - it's fake!

The ozone layer is not still growing or at least is not what was predicted only 10 or 20 years ago. that was the cause of global warming and flooding back then. now it's barely even mentioned.

If we got carbon credits off the table I bet the furor over carbon and CO2 would disappear as well.

Can we do better? Yes. Are we all going to burn and die - I don't think so.

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#1616216 23-Aug-2016 10:44

Fred99:

Yup - that temperature dip in the late 1800 and early 1900s was very worrying. WE could have been entering a global ice age.

what this shows is that in 100 years of industrialisation we have had an average temp change of 1 degree Celsius. Only another 20-30 or so until we can melt Antarctica. wake me up in 3000 years.

I had better add something to this.

I believe we have bigger issues to worry about than CO2.

Plastics are one example.

Deforestation is another - mostly for bio diversity, not climate change

I am heartened to see us moving more and more in the direction of solar powered. Germany, one of the most industrialised countries has pushed that hard. Spain has some awesome example.

One of the most heartening sights is the dropping of prices of EV vehicles. EV vans, buses and cars, even hybrid ones, are now so common place we dont even really look any more. As the price drops, uptake happens.

We are seeing BP, Shell and other oil companies branding themselves as energy companies. We are seeing them invest in electric and alcohol - both highly sustainable.

Some of our biggest concerns should possibly be water - e.g. the impact of concrete on water run off, absorbtion, reuptake into the water cycles. as well as concretes effect on heating. Cities do change climate in small but significant ways. Water quality is deteriorating all over the place, even traditionally stable and well supplied places like Canterbury are struggling (but not like certain places in the N. Island).

On a more political note - it is interesting to note most civilisations /kingdoms only last around 400 years. The cycle normally goes

Vibrant strong and ruthless new society - carving out their own kingdom as they leave their old lands
Civilising occurs - laws, rules, morality. Strong ethics
Prosperity follows peace and law. ethics and strength start to erode.
Decadence as the rich get rich and get soft, fat and ignore / enslave the poor and neighbors.

USA is in stage 3 and 4.

If it collapses as an economy - and it certainly is far from stable as allowing a clown like Bush Jr and now Trump as serious politicians shows, then most of our carbon and energy and oil issues dissappear as the greatest user and abuser of power, oil, carbon etc disappears.

Save the planet - vote Trump

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#1616218 23-Aug-2016 10:47

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

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