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  Reply # 1616221 23-Aug-2016 11:00
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BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

amen - preach it brother. But do realise your chances of getting a job as a reporter, publisher or politician are pretty much screwed. not enough scare mongering.

 

 





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  Reply # 1616246 23-Aug-2016 11:45
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BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

I wonder what's stopping the world from cleaning up. The main polluters are the ones with the biggest economy and the biggest population. (Correct me if I'm wrong).


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  Reply # 1616260 23-Aug-2016 12:19
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Ok, so 97% of scientists are scaremongering, got it now. Bring out non clean air fires again so we can enjoy life


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  Reply # 1616262 23-Aug-2016 12:20
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joker97:

 

BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

I wonder what's stopping the world from cleaning up. The main polluters are the ones with the biggest economy and the biggest population. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

what's stopping the world from cleaning up?  simple folks want the other person to do it

 

 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1616264 23-Aug-2016 12:29
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MikeB4:

 

what's stopping the world from cleaning up?  simple folks want the other person to do it

 

 

Nope... they want the other person to pay for it.

 

It costs money to treat sewage, clean up rivers, etc. There's more profit to be made if you can just dump your waste somewhere convenient, especially if you live 5,000 miles away.

 

 


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  Reply # 1616270 23-Aug-2016 12:51
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nunz:

 

That's the type of rhetoric that gives us skeptics ammunition to ignore all the ranting that goes on. The ONLY  significant impact? So what about:

 

  • Volcanoes
  • Increased thermal oceanic volcanic activity
  • solar climate where there are warm and cold patches (e.g. grapes grown clear across the UK in 1200's as it was warmer there then than it is now)
  • Ice ages
  • Ozone layer

 

If you truly believe that climate is an uncontrollable process driven by volcanoes and solar cycles (ice ages AFAIK are a symptom, not a cause, and I think the ozone layer changes too), then surely we need to modify our lifestyles to live within the (assuming you believe that it is predictable) expected climate. Move people away from low-lying areas that will inevitably get flooded as sea levels rise. Move people away from near-desert areas which will inevitably become deserts. Change farming practices so that dairy farming is not done in areas that will increasingly become drought-prone. A little foresight and management now will save a lot of suffering in the future.

 

If, OTOH, people do have a significant impact on the climate, then it also makes sense to do what we can to change the climate for the better, rather than accelerate any unwanted changes.

 

Oh wait... two unpalatable alternatives. I know! Let's just bury our heads in the sand and hope it all doesn't happen.

 

 


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  Reply # 1616291 23-Aug-2016 13:11
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frankv:

 

MikeB4:

 

what's stopping the world from cleaning up?  simple folks want the other person to do it

 

 

Nope... they want the other person to pay for it.

 

It costs money to treat sewage, clean up rivers, etc. There's more profit to be made if you can just dump your waste somewhere convenient, especially if you live 5,000 miles away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still adds up to folks want the other person to do it. To justify this they denigrate anyone that is green.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1616336 23-Aug-2016 14:36
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joker97:

 

BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

I wonder what's stopping the world from cleaning up. The main polluters are the ones with the biggest economy and the biggest population. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

 

 

USA doesnt = biggest population but biggest polluter.

 

India = neither but is worlds second biggest population.

 

CO2 issues arise from deforestation - mostly in developing economys but driven often by 1st world corporates - eg. parm seed oil growing etc.

 

 





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  Reply # 1616337 23-Aug-2016 14:40
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frankv:

 

MikeB4:

 

what's stopping the world from cleaning up?  simple folks want the other person to do it

 

 

Nope... they want the other person to pay for it.

 

It costs money to treat sewage, clean up rivers, etc. There's more profit to be made if you can just dump your waste somewhere convenient, especially if you live 5,000 miles away.

 

 

 

 

But it is a false economy.  Why pay someone to take away valuable goods when we should be using them ourselves.

 

Excellent example is green waste - removed in green bins, composted and sold back to us at big profits.

 

There is value in waste plastics, less now that virgin plastic (non-recycled) is cheaper owing to cheaper oil prices. but prior to that it was a valuable commodity.

 

Sewerage is excellent compost, creates methane etc.

 

an example of the false economy is - going back 20 years, if we had collected all the stalk left over from wheat harvest around Ashburton, turned it into methane, we would not only have powered most of NZ's cars with no petrol imports but also created highly nutritious animal feed suppliment. Instead we collected and burned it.

 

 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 1616344 23-Aug-2016 14:46
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frankv:

 

nunz:

 

That's the type of rhetoric that gives us skeptics ammunition to ignore all the ranting that goes on. The ONLY  significant impact? So what about:

 

  • Volcanoes
  • Increased thermal oceanic volcanic activity
  • solar climate where there are warm and cold patches (e.g. grapes grown clear across the UK in 1200's as it was warmer there then than it is now)
  • Ice ages
  • Ozone layer

 

If you truly believe that climate is an uncontrollable process driven by volcanoes and solar cycles (ice ages AFAIK are a symptom, not a cause, and I think the ozone layer changes too), then surely we need to modify our lifestyles to live within the (assuming you believe that it is predictable) expected climate. Move people away from low-lying areas that will inevitably get flooded as sea levels rise. Move people away from near-desert areas which will inevitably become deserts. Change farming practices so that dairy farming is not done in areas that will increasingly become drought-prone. A little foresight and management now will save a lot of suffering in the future.

 

If, OTOH, people do have a significant impact on the climate, then it also makes sense to do what we can to change the climate for the better, rather than accelerate any unwanted changes.

 

Oh wait... two unpalatable alternatives. I know! Let's just bury our heads in the sand and hope it all doesn't happen.

 

 

 

 

read my posts again - I'm not advocating burying head in the sand at all - I'm ranting against the scaremongering BS that drives stock markets, media sales and allows us to pick on the poor while continuing living luxury life styles.

 

I've survived so many terrible apocalypses in the making that I'm damn near bullet proof. Sunspots, ozone, burnt toast, bacon, fatty food, non fatty food, nuclear war, biological war, sun screen cancer , oil crisis, jihadists, AQ, ISIS, Taliban, Black September, Red Brigade, Commies, nazis, lefists, rightists, deforestation, canola oil, genetic modification, sun spots, comets, asteroids, sars, flu, aids, hepititus, ebola, thatcherism, sign of the beast, bar codes, MICR, y2k, y2k + 1 , ... man I survived them all - well most of me survived - it seems my sceptisicm grew and I lost some of my innocence along the way.

 

 





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  Reply # 1616388 23-Aug-2016 16:01
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frankv:

MikeB4:


what's stopping the world from cleaning up?  simple folks want the other person to do it



Nope... they want the other person to pay for it.


It costs money to treat sewage, clean up rivers, etc. There's more profit to be made if you can just dump your waste somewhere convenient, especially if you live 5,000 miles away.


 



And there is the solution to your problem. Being green can generate quite a bit of income if the infrastructure supports it, when that happens the supply chain economics can become a closed loop (reverse) supply chain system.


Edit: CO2 caused by people is called anthropogenic CO2. Its measurable like most things.




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  Reply # 1616400 23-Aug-2016 16:11
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joker97:

 

BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

I wonder what's stopping the world from cleaning up. The main polluters are the ones with the biggest economy and the biggest population. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

You're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grZSxoLPqXI&t=14m35s


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  Reply # 1616406 23-Aug-2016 16:18
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nunz:

 

 

 

We are still fed BS about how bad radiation is for us when it obviously isn't as bad as made out when considering the high number of survivors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, near the epicenter, that lived well into their 80's and 90's. The cancer rates from them is way too low for what majority science tells us.

 

 

 

 

 

You need to take great care not to read too much into that.  That's one example which seems to contradict the LNT model, others support it, some suggest it's not conservative enough.
Mostly though, never use it to argue in a way to suggest that nuclear weapons are ok.  They aren't.


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  Reply # 1616504 23-Aug-2016 19:42
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nunz:

 

joker97:

 

BlueShift:

 

I mean, imagine how stupid we'd look if we drastically reduced the amount of pollution we pumped into the environment, cleaned up the rivers and streams, switched to cleaner renewable energy wherever possible, and it turned out we didn't have quite such a huge effect on global temperatures. We'd feel like such idiots in our clean, smog-free cities and towns.

 

Really, what's the downside of cleaning the place up a bit?

 

 

I wonder what's stopping the world from cleaning up. The main polluters are the ones with the biggest economy and the biggest population. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

 

 

USA doesnt = biggest population but biggest polluter. They cannot afford it

 

India = neither but is worlds second biggest population. China is highest, but their revolution began in 1970

 

CO2 issues arise from deforestation - mostly in developing economys but driven often by 1st world corporates - eg. parm seed oil growing etc. Its NOT. But its a contributor.

 

 

 

 

I have spoken


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  Reply # 1616510 23-Aug-2016 19:45
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nunz:

 

frankv:

 

nunz:

 

That's the type of rhetoric that gives us skeptics ammunition to ignore all the ranting that goes on. The ONLY  significant impact? So what about:

 

  • Volcanoes
  • Increased thermal oceanic volcanic activity
  • solar climate where there are warm and cold patches (e.g. grapes grown clear across the UK in 1200's as it was warmer there then than it is now)
  • Ice ages
  • Ozone layer

 

If you truly believe that climate is an uncontrollable process driven by volcanoes and solar cycles (ice ages AFAIK are a symptom, not a cause, and I think the ozone layer changes too), then surely we need to modify our lifestyles to live within the (assuming you believe that it is predictable) expected climate. Move people away from low-lying areas that will inevitably get flooded as sea levels rise. Move people away from near-desert areas which will inevitably become deserts. Change farming practices so that dairy farming is not done in areas that will increasingly become drought-prone. A little foresight and management now will save a lot of suffering in the future.

 

If, OTOH, people do have a significant impact on the climate, then it also makes sense to do what we can to change the climate for the better, rather than accelerate any unwanted changes.

 

Oh wait... two unpalatable alternatives. I know! Let's just bury our heads in the sand and hope it all doesn't happen.

 

 

 

 

read my posts again - I'm not advocating burying head in the sand at all - I'm ranting against the scaremongering BS that drives stock markets, media sales and allows us to pick on the poor while continuing living luxury life styles.

 

I've survived so many terrible apocalypses in the making that I'm damn near bullet proof. Sunspots, ozone, burnt toast, bacon, fatty food, non fatty food, nuclear war, biological war, sun screen cancer , oil crisis, jihadists, AQ, ISIS, Taliban, Black September, Red Brigade, Commies, nazis, lefists, rightists, deforestation, canola oil, genetic modification, sun spots, comets, asteroids, sars, flu, aids, hepititus, ebola, thatcherism, sign of the beast, bar codes, MICR, y2k, y2k + 1 , ... man I survived them all - well most of me survived - it seems my sceptisicm grew and I lost some of my innocence along the way.

 

 

 

 

You forgot Bachelorette!!

 

I don't buy volcanoes etc. Id like a screenshot of all active volcanoes vs all active chimneys

 

 


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