How I propose to fix the property market.

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thinus

34 posts

Geek

#1600615 29-Jul-2016 10:46

frankv:

Is it the jobs? In which case, why do businesses insist on being in Auckland?

Yes, it is the jobs. For me the only real options with my skills are Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. When there are 5-10 times as many jobs advertised in Auckland compared to Wellington and Christchurch then staying in Auckland for job security is a no brainer.

Also, most of the opportunities are in Auckland because most people and most businesses are there.

As a non-Aucklander, I think that economics should left to apply... if *you* want to live in Auckland, *you* pay for the housing and the roading and all the other drama that goes with it. When people pay the actual cost of living, the rational will choose to live elsewhere and the problem will be sorted.

Your tax dollars are paying for roading and housing in Auckland? Really? I thought the Auckland council is responsible for roading and housing in the Auckland city limits which is funded by rates and income generated from development charges and council owned assets.

Are you talking about the Auckland/Government joint project to improve public transport in Auckland? Do you know how hard it is to get anything out of the government? We have unprecedented immigration putting huge strain on Auckland and mostly the government is just washing its hands and pointing the finger at Auckland council or completely denying that there is a problem in the first place.

Where do you live? How would you like it if 10,000 people decided to settle there next year? How about 50,000? Let's rezone all the land around your home to allow building of 4 story apartment complexes, we upgrade the roads over the next 20 years or so. We throw in a bus or two and then the rest of NZ turns around and says our tax dollars are not going to pay for it, *you* pay for it. So then your local council gets to hike the rates you pay significantly and it gets to go up to its limit in debt to build the essential infrastructure necessary to house that many people. While houses are being built and businesses established they get to sleep in their cars and in you and your neighbour's garages and they get welfare from the government to pay for their most basic needs till they are able to get jobs and become productive.

And you also don't just choose to live elsewhere and just pack up and go. You need to eat, pay the rent, care for your kids and a significant amount of us actually care about what we do, are passionate about it and want to make a positive contribution to our society. Until businesses shift people won't shift. And what incentive is there for a business to shift? In Auckland they can get the people they need, access to all kinds of resources their business may need, other businesses they can partner and collaborate with and a huge potential market if you sell locally. New software development companies that employ more than 2 people do not start up in Morrinsville for a reason.

Again. where do you live? What has your council done to attract businesses/people to the area and to grow the area? What has the government done to help your area grow? Do you even want the growth? Don't blame people and businesses for settling in Auckland when they are not provided any feasible alternatives.

Also, the average wage in Auckland is higher than in the rest of the country, hence, Aucklanders pay more personal income tax. Do you really want to go down that road? Do you want all services that are currently nationally funded to be local body controlled from your local tax money?

This is one New Zealand with one Government to look after everyone. Auckland has problems and needs help. Why do you have a problem with your taxes helping? Did you have a problem with government spending in Christchurch?

Didn't mean to rant but the whole us vs them attitude just gets to me.

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RUKI

1400 posts

Uber Geek

#1600721 29-Jul-2016 11:46

mattwnz:

But why are we trying to increase the population so much and so fast? Nz is a far better country with a smaller population imo and wet don't want to be like every other country and city in the world. Essentially we are bringing in all these immigrants without anywhere to house them ....

Agreed. Because of the shortage in some areas and obvious cost-cutting goals for companies - there are a lot of low skilled people coming who are prepared to accept lower pay (e.g. in IT) and that indirectly impacts the ability of the professional residents / citizens to afford raising house prices. Phenomenon is: you as a citizen is competing with the low-skilled work visa holder and they will be hired purely because they are ready to work for 1/2 of what you should be paid for your skills ....

frankv

5678 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#1600806 29-Jul-2016 14:06

thinus:

frankv:

Is it the jobs? In which case, why do businesses insist on being in Auckland?

Yes, it is the jobs. For me the only real options with my skills are Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. When there are 5-10 times as many jobs advertised in Auckland compared to Wellington and Christchurch then staying in Auckland for job security is a no brainer.

Also, most of the opportunities are in Auckland because most people and most businesses are there.

As a non-Aucklander, I think that economics should left to apply... if *you* want to live in Auckland, *you* pay for the housing and the roading and all the other drama that goes with it. When people pay the actual cost of living, the rational will choose to live elsewhere and the problem will be sorted.

Your tax dollars are paying for roading and housing in Auckland? Really? I thought the Auckland council is responsible for roading and housing in the Auckland city limits which is funded by rates and income generated from development charges and council owned assets.

Really. All State Highways are funded from Govt. And I think there's a 1 for 2 subsidy on local roads.

How would you like it if 10,000 people decided to settle there next year?

But this is exactly what I'm objecting to. People are moving to Auckland for jobs. Businesses are located in Auckland because people are there. Some part of that kind of circular reasoning must be fallacious. The more that Auckland is propped up (in terms of housing, roading, sewerage, etc, etc), the more it will encourage more people and businesses to move to Auckland. Nothing's getting solved... it's just bandaids.

While houses are being built and businesses established they get to sleep in their cars and in you and your neighbour's garages and they get welfare from the government to pay for their most basic needs till they are able to get jobs and become productive.

But didn't you just say that people go to Auckland because there are jobs there? Because there are businesses there? Why aren't the beneficiaries moving to somewhere where there *is* housing?

Until businesses shift people won't shift. And what incentive is there for a business to shift? In Auckland they can get the people they need, access to all kinds of resources their business may need, other businesses they can partner and collaborate with and a huge potential market if you sell locally.

Same circular reasoning again. So long as people rush around solving Auckland's problems, there will be no incentive for either businesses or people to go elsewhere.

Don't blame people and businesses for settling in Auckland when they are not provided any feasible alternatives.

Sorry, it's not my intention to blame anyone for anything. People apparently put up with the crap of the Auckland lifestyle to get jobs. Fair enough. But, if there's a problem with housing and infrastructure in Auckland, and the lifestyle looks to be getting worse, people (and businesses) should be *discouraged* from moving to Auckland.

Auckland has problems and needs help. Why do you have a problem with your taxes helping?

Because it isn't helping. This is like a kindly old lady who feeds stray cats and gives them comfortable beds. All that happens is that more and more cats arrive, until the cats are the problem, not the starving cats.

Didn't mean to rant but the whole us vs them attitude just gets to me.

Sorry, this wasn't meant to be an us-vs-them thing. It's not that I begrudge money being spent in Auckland. It's just that spending money isn't solving anything. It's only when people start saying "Well, I could live in Auckland, but the lifestyle there is so crap that I'll find a job elsewhere, even if it has less wages and job security" that Auckland's housing & infrastructure problems will be solved.

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