TwoSeven: Give it some "time" before you move it to the "travel" forum.

Warp 9 Scotty! I canna do that Jim!

tdgeek:

 

TwoSeven: I doubt it would be possible to transform mars in any way, due to the lack of an atmosphere. The issue is that Mars being smaller than the earth does not have a large enough iron core to support a sizeable atmosphere - its the magnetism in the core (as I understand things) that keep an atmosphere in place. Without this, the solar winds would ionise what atmosphere mars did have and strip it off the planet (which is what I think might have happened).

Shielding I think is pretty well understood now, so I don't see any short term round trip having any issues. The same goes with building structures - I am sure there are current materials that will cope, and in the 21st centurary, I am sure we are able to create new ones if when needed.

 

It has an iron core, but its all stopped, so no rotation and no magnetic field. I days past it had that, and flowing water and no doubt an atmosphere.

 

Now is that science, legend or mythology - where does one draw the line?

joker97:

 

tdgeek:

 

TwoSeven: I doubt it would be possible to transform mars in any way, due to the lack of an atmosphere. The issue is that Mars being smaller than the earth does not have a large enough iron core to support a sizeable atmosphere - its the magnetism in the core (as I understand things) that keep an atmosphere in place. Without this, the solar winds would ionise what atmosphere mars did have and strip it off the planet (which is what I think might have happened).

Shielding I think is pretty well understood now, so I don't see any short term round trip having any issues. The same goes with building structures - I am sure there are current materials that will cope, and in the 21st centurary, I am sure we are able to create new ones if when needed.

 

It has an iron core, but its all stopped, so no rotation and no magnetic field. I days past it had that, and flowing water and no doubt an atmosphere.

 

 

Now is that science, legend or mythology - where does one draw the line?

 

Pretty sound science that it has an iron core, residual magnetic field (40x weaker than Earth but with a weird anomaly), that there's been flowing water, once had a more dense atmosphere.

The atmosphere of Mars has an average surface pressure of ~600 pascals.  That's roughly equivalent to the pressure of Earth's atmosphere at 110,000 feet - it effectively a vacuum - well below the Armstrong Limit.

That doesn't give me confidence that "terraforming" to provide an atmosphere able to support human life is on the cards any time soon.

From 1968.  NASA's presentation on how to get a manned mission to Mars and back using nuclear powered rockets:

Fred99:

The atmosphere of Mars has an average surface pressure of ~600 pascals.  That's roughly equivalent to the pressure of Earth's atmosphere at 110,000 feet - it effectively a vacuum - well below the Armstrong Limit.

That doesn't give me confidence that "terraforming" to provide an atmosphere able to support human life is on the cards any time soon.

Damn..thats the end of my holiday plans....will have to stay on this planet for yet another summer vacation.

More news suggesting very unappealing consequences of radiation exposure during a return mission to Mars:

https://news.uci.edu/research/mars-bound-astronauts-face-chronic-dementia-risk-from-galactic-cosmic-ray-exposure/

Fred99:

 

More news suggesting very unappealing consequences of radiation exposure during a return mission to Mars:

 

https://news.uci.edu/research/mars-bound-astronauts-face-chronic-dementia-risk-from-galactic-cosmic-ray-exposure/

 

 

 

Not good. But at the end of the day its interesting to visit Mars, but I cannot for the life of me understand why we want to live there. the cost, the risks, the zero benefits, its very bizarre.

gzt: It's interesting. As the article points out, research in this direction could lead to compounds to optimise the brain chemistry for this scenario, which could in turn lead to medical uses on earth for existing dementia type conditions.

It is and good point. No need or desire to live there, and what they discovered is great, its about discovery, not living in a hell hole when you have a well setup house down the road

Similar things could be said about climbing Everest.

NASA - despite being dependant upon public funding thus a need to "stir the emotions" of politicians and the general public to the value of such a mission - seem to be rather less gung-ho about the idea than Musk and others.

There actually could be immense benefit from research that would need to be carried out before any such mission was possible - or advisable.  If they can come up with measures (apart from just shielding) or treatments that prevent or reverse the effects of that radiation damage, then the required level of understanding of the science of how to achieve that would almost certainly revolutionise medicine on earth.

Fred99:

 

Similar things could be said about climbing Everest.

 

NASA - despite being dependant upon public funding thus a need to "stir the emotions" of politicians and the general public to the value of such a mission - seem to be rather less gung-ho about the idea than Musk and others.

 

There actually could be immense benefit from research that would need to be carried out before any such mission was possible - or advisable.  If they can come up with measures (apart from just shielding) or treatments that prevent or reverse the effects of that radiation damage, then the required level of understanding of the science of how to achieve that would almost certainly revolutionise medicine on earth.

 

 

 

As I said, go there, visit there, explorers live there for a period due to the distance, all good. Discover all these great things and learn about Mars. But forget ever relocating humans to live there, there is no point at all. 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

As I said, go there, visit there, explorers live there for a period due to the distance, all good. Discover all these great things and learn about Mars. But forget ever relocating humans to live there, there is no point at all. 

 

That's a statement about philosophy - not science.  There was no "point" to colonising New Zealand, yet here we are.

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

As I said, go there, visit there, explorers live there for a period due to the distance, all good. Discover all these great things and learn about Mars. But forget ever relocating humans to live there, there is no point at all. 

 

 

 

 

That's a statement about philosophy - not science.  There was no "point" to colonising New Zealand, yet here we are.

 

Now, colonising Mars and the terraforming that goes with that is a world away from moving from one area of land, sea, air and water to another. We are smart enough to evolve as we have, and to visit the solar system, and to know we are mismanaging our planet, yet we are dumb enough to not bother about that. I'm all for discovery, but Mars doesnt offer us anything over Earth. So lets continue to explore space, and Mars. But to expect to live there? There is no point. We already have a fully setup planet.

Give me some reasons why we should establish a permanent population on Mars. The only reason I can foresee is to insure us, if the Earth was hit by an asteroid, and not just a Yucatan one.