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  Reply # 1620323 31-Aug-2016 16:27
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MikeB4:

 

ajobbins:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Absolutely correct me if I am wrong shhhhh not a lawyer. This case is to determine if extradition is valid under law and the larger matter of did Dotcom commit Money Laundering, Copyright infringements etc is the matter for the US Courts not the New Zealand Courts. If I am right all the prosecution needs to prove at this point  Prima Facie a case needs to be answered and the possible sentence should guilt be established meets our legal requirements.  

 

 

One of the key issues is that KDC is trying to exercise his legal right to defend himself against extradition, but the US have decided he is a 'fugitive' despite the fact he's never been there. They are effectively using that process and law to sidestep and make it very difficult to defend himself by seizing all of his assets (not just the US ones - all of them) because he refuses to willingly go and answer the case.

 

We have an extradition hearing process to be followed to determine if there is a prima facie case to answer, as you point out - however by deciding KDC et al are fugitives the US are able to punish him for not submitting regardless, by taking all of his global assets thus making it very hard to fund a defense to the extradition case.

 

The US is also able to use non-independent 'expert witnesses'' to help their case for extradition (as they did in the first hearing), but with KDC's assets in the possession of the US he can't get US legal advice (e.g. an independent expert witness).

 

So basically, the US have been using a whole lot of mechanisms that really aren't intended for what they are using for to make it as difficult as possible to defend (not including the well known breaches of process and illegal actions).

 

The extradition process has mechanisms for the case to be dismissed when one party has been shown to abuse processes, especially in an ongoing manner.

 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that we should try him here in NZ on the charges that the US have laid and dismiss the extradition treaty?

 

 

 

 

No, the process would be, if the courts decide that either there's no case for extradition, or that the other side isn't looking like they will provide a fair trial (or death sentence or whatever), the judge says no extradition. Then, if the defendant has committed any crimes in NZ punishable and provable under NZ law, there'll be a whole 'nother can of worms. But since he's been pretty much a model citizen in kiwiland, he'd be turned loose, and be free to start all his proceedings for wrongful arrest, unlawful seizure of his assets, etc, etc, etc.


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  Reply # 1620362 31-Aug-2016 18:46
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BlueShift:

 

 

 

No, the process would be, if the courts decide that either there's no case for extradition, or that the other side isn't looking like they will provide a fair trial (or death sentence or whatever), the judge says no extradition. Then, if the defendant has committed any crimes in NZ punishable and provable under NZ law, there'll be a whole 'nother can of worms. But since he's been pretty much a model citizen in kiwiland, he'd be turned loose, and be free to start all his proceedings for wrongful arrest, unlawful seizure of his assets, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much. The issue that has been raised, and I think rightly so, is that he's not getting a fair extradition hearing and due process is not being followed. While the extradition hearing only needs to establish a prima facie case, that doesn't mean you can't defend against that - and in a case where the country requesting extradition is pretty much pulling out all the stops to ensure that KDC can't defend himself in any proper manor, there are provisions for the case to be dumped because the prosecution can effectively be deemed to have prevented due process and waived their right to attempt extradition.

 

In short - Extradition only requires a prima facie case to be established, but it's not a one sided submission and as you would expect, there are rules around due process that must be respected to ensure that the process is fair. 

 

The current hearing is less about the due process directly, but the fact the last judge appears to have largely missed the point, ignored genuine evidence from the defense, and contradicts himself a number of times in his own ruling.

 

And this is all without considering that the charges of racketeering, money laundering etc are baseless if the copyright charges fall down - yet the US does not even have a law for criminal secondary copyright infringement at all. So basically you have a guy who may or may not have broken some laws being considered for extradition on secondary charges that rely on a primary charge (that does not meet the threshold for extradition) asserting a law that doesn't exist.

 

The issue here is not about whether KDC is a bad guy or broke laws or whatever. The process is important. So, so important. And if it's not just so, then we are all at greater risk of getting in trouble for things we may not have done. Sometimes guilty people get away with crimes because of procedural issues - and while that may seem unfair, it's fundamental to the integrity of our justice system and in particular protecting the innocent.





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