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636 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1626877 10-Sep-2016 09:48
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frankv:

 

kobiak:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

I have a friend whose business is building houses (cheaply and quickly) from sandwich panels. He now has a few designs which meet NZ building standards (including earthquake) and several houses built, but it was a huge effort to get through all the regulatory red tape. 

 

 

That's interesting. Do you know how much it cost to build house like that?

 

 

$100K for 3brm 72 sqm house. IIRC, the whole thing flat-packs into a single 40ft container.

 

http://tuffbuild.co.nz/Tuffbuild/Home.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would be fine for a basic bach - but as a home - no thanks.

 

 

 

bear in mind section / site development / services / paving - fencing - landscaping all on top would all add a decent amount

 

 

 

And no builder in their right mind would build such a low spec house in Akl given high land prices and the minimal roi a build like this would yield.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1627974 12-Sep-2016 16:07
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tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

I agree. Immigrants should be required to build their own house. Or a means of housing that creates a new home. Cater for themselves. Leave the housing issues for us to manage, but provide your own housing from NOT our house supply. Sorted. 

 

 

 

 

They do in at least some Australian states. It just makes so much sense. But many coming into NZ will initially be renting and not buying, and they will likely remain renting forever due to the high cost of houses. Although it is a rental, it is also a rental that a NZer misses out on, which is why people are living in cars. But  a significant problem is also overseas buyers buying NZ houses, who aren't actually living here, as they are buying for both capital gain and the increasing rent, and that money then heads off overseas. Housing can be a great investment in NZ due to all the advantages it offers, but it is not great for first home buyers. a 1 million dollar house in Auckland is actually going to end up costing nearly 2 million over the life of a loan. 2 million is an insane amount of money, for a often poorly insulated low spec timber house.

 

 

1000% agree. Keep housing issues a Kiwi issue and legislate that external, which are in effect artificial, out of it. Sure there may be issues for skills that we are short of, but others, rock on in with your millions, and build your own.

 

 

 

 

In Chch we have seen huge increases in rental prices owing to shortage caused by an earthquake or 2 and then added pressure of housing those coming in to do the rebuild.

 

This was then exacerbated by greedy prickles putting rents up massively (150 - 400% was not uncommon)

 

We have seen a lot of overseas "investment" in houses here. Houses in average areas going for 2 - 3 x times going prices as overseas investors jumped in. Add to this the changes to zoning and suddenly affordable areas are getting their 800sqm land plots purchased by town house speculators who build 2 - 6 houses on the same area. There is a 12 unit, 16 car park motel going in around the corner to us, on a 350sqm section that went for over twice its GV.  I pity the houses on either side who are going to lose their sun and privacy.

 

In chch the rental prices are coming down. However they aren't lowering to previous levels and the reality is a person on minimum wage, working 40 hours per week cannot afford $300 - $400 for a 3 bedroom house without support.

 

Another cause of issues for us is around insurance payouts. Many people whose houses were a rebuild or heavily damaged, have taken the payout from insurance etc, and sold the house as is where is. normally for land value. The only people who can afford that are normally speculators as you need a full payment as no mortgage is available on as is where housing - adding more to the shortage.

 

Lastly there have been 160 building companies go under since 2015. 60 this year owing over 40million in debts. a lot of innocent poeple have put down depositis and then ended up screwed.

 

 

 

The answer? Over seas investors cannot buy houses in NZ speculatively. if you buy a place in Nz you need to either occupy it for at least 4 weeks per year or live in NZ at least 50% of the time. Excpetions for NZ citizens who go over seas or those who get ownership via an inheritence etc.

 

There does need to be some type of tightening on speculative housing. Maybe after owning a second or third house you pay tax on capital gains - but that puts up rents as well.

 

Lesson stupid council restrictions and costs - which have escalated out of control- so we can get on with building homes for our familys. Hey, how about some type of break for those who build their own homes?

 

As someone who is trying to save the requisite 80k plus for a 20% mortgage while paying over $400 per week and raising kids etc, I can tell you owning a house is looking a long off if ever option. We are looking at purchasing 1acre of land, or a small plot of land, doing it up with gardens, orchard, fruit, landscaping etc over 10 years and then when having paid it off building or selling ti as pre-prepared ready to build on.

 

if the council lessened it restrictions on small houses (tiny house movement) or stopped trying to kill the dreams those of us who want to build on trailors to get around the huge compliance costs then maybe some of the crisis would disappear.

 

 

 

 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 1627980 12-Sep-2016 16:20
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nunz:

 

tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

I agree. Immigrants should be required to build their own house. Or a means of housing that creates a new home. Cater for themselves. Leave the housing issues for us to manage, but provide your own housing from NOT our house supply. Sorted. 

 

 

 

 

They do in at least some Australian states. It just makes so much sense. But many coming into NZ will initially be renting and not buying, and they will likely remain renting forever due to the high cost of houses. Although it is a rental, it is also a rental that a NZer misses out on, which is why people are living in cars. But  a significant problem is also overseas buyers buying NZ houses, who aren't actually living here, as they are buying for both capital gain and the increasing rent, and that money then heads off overseas. Housing can be a great investment in NZ due to all the advantages it offers, but it is not great for first home buyers. a 1 million dollar house in Auckland is actually going to end up costing nearly 2 million over the life of a loan. 2 million is an insane amount of money, for a often poorly insulated low spec timber house.

 

 

1000% agree. Keep housing issues a Kiwi issue and legislate that external, which are in effect artificial, out of it. Sure there may be issues for skills that we are short of, but others, rock on in with your millions, and build your own.

 

 

 

 

In Chch we have seen huge increases in rental prices owing to shortage caused by an earthquake or 2 and then added pressure of housing those coming in to do the rebuild.

 

This was then exacerbated by greedy prickles putting rents up massively (150 - 400% was not uncommon)

 

We have seen a lot of overseas "investment" in houses here. Houses in average areas going for 2 - 3 x times going prices as overseas investors jumped in. Add to this the changes to zoning and suddenly affordable areas are getting their 800sqm land plots purchased by town house speculators who build 2 - 6 houses on the same area. There is a 12 unit, 16 car park motel going in around the corner to us, on a 350sqm section that went for over twice its GV.  I pity the houses on either side who are going to lose their sun and privacy.

 

In chch the rental prices are coming down. However they aren't lowering to previous levels and the reality is a person on minimum wage, working 40 hours per week cannot afford $300 - $400 for a 3 bedroom house without support.

 

Another cause of issues for us is around insurance payouts. Many people whose houses were a rebuild or heavily damaged, have taken the payout from insurance etc, and sold the house as is where is. normally for land value. The only people who can afford that are normally speculators as you need a full payment as no mortgage is available on as is where housing - adding more to the shortage.

 

Lastly there have been 160 building companies go under since 2015. 60 this year owing over 40million in debts. a lot of innocent poeple have put down depositis and then ended up screwed.

 

 

 

The answer? Over seas investors cannot buy houses in NZ speculatively. if you buy a place in Nz you need to either occupy it for at least 4 weeks per year or live in NZ at least 50% of the time. Excpetions for NZ citizens who go over seas or those who get ownership via an inheritence etc.

 

There does need to be some type of tightening on speculative housing. Maybe after owning a second or third house you pay tax on capital gains - but that puts up rents as well.

 

Lesson stupid council restrictions and costs - which have escalated out of control- so we can get on with building homes for our familys. Hey, how about some type of break for those who build their own homes?

 

As someone who is trying to save the requisite 80k plus for a 20% mortgage while paying over $400 per week and raising kids etc, I can tell you owning a house is looking a long off if ever option. We are looking at purchasing 1acre of land, or a small plot of land, doing it up with gardens, orchard, fruit, landscaping etc over 10 years and then when having paid it off building or selling ti as pre-prepared ready to build on.

 

if the council lessened it restrictions on small houses (tiny house movement) or stopped trying to kill the dreams those of us who want to build on trailors to get around the huge compliance costs then maybe some of the crisis would disappear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is simple really, existing NZ housing stock should only be allowed to be purchased by NZ residents. Let overseas people buy land to build new houses only to up our hosuing stock, but then put restrictions when they need to. 

 

With housing companies, make deposits go into a trust account, so if the building company goes under, the money is still there to pay expenses and refund.

 

These things are so logical, and other countries do it. You really have to wonder why our successive governments have allowed this to go on for so long. They are far too slow to react to market changes. 

 

 

 

When you have the head of the reserve bank, as well as the head of NZs biggest bank saying there are problems, they shouldn' t be ignored. Apparently Australia is only 6 weeks away from a major housing crash, and if that does happen that is likely to cause problems in NZ too, since most NZ banks are Ozzie owned http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11708064 


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  Reply # 1627983 12-Sep-2016 16:26
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tdgeek:

 

wsnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

A previous poster tells us that the Govt can build a better quality home for 40% less, and make a profit. That seems to be the solution to go with

 

 

 

 

Somehow I doubt that would be the case in reality.

 

 

Your right about that

 

 

Why? 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 1628087 12-Sep-2016 19:01
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

It is simple really, existing NZ housing stock should only be allowed to be purchased by NZ residents. Let overseas people buy land to build new houses only to up our hosuing stock, but then put restrictions when they need to. 

 

 

I been saying that through the while thread. Allow exclusions for tradespeople. Immigrants need to build within a year. Yes, there will be valid exceptions, but the money up ones who have their student kids here and don't live here permanently shouldn't by at auctions ramping the price up to what they can easily afford, when others just want to pay a fair price and get left behind


Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1628146 12-Sep-2016 20:19
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What's the point of repeating this for the fourteenth time on the umpteenth geekzone thread? Go tell Andrew Little or something


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  Reply # 1628179 12-Sep-2016 21:13
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joker97:

 

What's the point of repeating this for the fourteenth time on the umpteenth geekzone thread? Go tell Andrew Little or something

 

 

 

 

The two main parties aren't really interested in bringing in that sort of policy. Labour want to bring in a whole lot of taxes such as CGT, which won't fix it. New taxes are never a good idea. It requires major policy changes, which are probably against the TPPA. Although if the US don't sign up , the TPPA is a dead duck, and we have wasted possibly millions of tax payer dollars on it.


Mad Scientist
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  Reply # 1628204 12-Sep-2016 21:59
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Hmm sounds like it's time for a new political party! umm ... try Winston Peters?


52 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1628207 12-Sep-2016 22:05
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An improvement to the situation of housing being used as an investment to the detriment of genuine home owner use is feasible in the form of a transfer tax.  Quite heavy and independent of GST which is a fiddle tax aimed solely at the bottom feeders.

 

If you sell a house you pay the Government a fee.  This fee could be adjusted relative to the use that the house has been put to and for how long.  This would recover revenue for the betterment of the supply of services needed by an expanding market.  Suitable punishment and retribution for the speculators locking up empty houses solely to financial gain. 

 

G


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  Reply # 1628245 12-Sep-2016 22:33
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GGJohnstone:

 

An improvement to the situation of housing being used as an investment to the detriment of genuine home owner use is feasible in the form of a transfer tax.  Quite heavy and independent of GST which is a fiddle tax aimed solely at the bottom feeders.

 

If you sell a house you pay the Government a fee.  This fee could be adjusted relative to the use that the house has been put to and for how long.  This would recover revenue for the betterment of the supply of services needed by an expanding market.  Suitable punishment and retribution for the speculators locking up empty houses solely to financial gain. 

 

G

 

 

 

 

Sounds remarkably like Stamp Duty.

 

However, ask anyone in a country with SD whether it makes the houses any cheaper or more available...it doesn't. Just makes more money for the government to waste on your behalf.






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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1628374 13-Sep-2016 09:53
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You have put a name to it.

 

The measure of SD ultimately would align with other countries but for us in New Zealand the immediate effect could be to let some "air" out of the housing bubble.

 

We are experiencing many bad things promoted by the current situation that would be slightly reduced by a punitive SD.

 

Inefficiencies:  Use of credit for non productive.  Promotion of inefficient building supplies and methods.  Etc.

 

It could be tried very easily and the ratio adjusted to account for less than honorable selling as seen in some areas of the country.  A house sold and resold on one day.

 

I have never seen a bust up like the US sub prime but by all accounts its a wide reaching and rather unfair thing.  The N Z banking system has some protection built in "OBR" but even with that people like me with financial management "halos" will get burned.

 

 

 

G


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  Reply # 1628412 13-Sep-2016 10:29
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Perhaps a regional SD? 

 

No need to tax the rest of us because of Auckland's issues.

 

The national median house price buys a very nice house where I live. 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1628498 13-Sep-2016 12:22
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MikeAqua:

 

Perhaps a regional SD? 

 

No need to tax the rest of us because of Auckland's issues.

 

The national median house price buys a very nice house where I live. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The median house price for Auckland would buy you a 300 sq m house and 15 acres where I live!!






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  Reply # 1628525 13-Sep-2016 13:20
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I wonder how long it will be before loan to income ratio restrictions come in. Apparently it can be quite effective in the places they have brought it in. Although it won't affect overseas buyers to the same amount, it will cut down on the number of houses people can buy

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1628827 13-Sep-2016 19:13
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We are thinking more clearly here.

 

Another wrinkle SD could change is that it would help the sellers and builders meet the market.  The super duper swimming pool equipped climate air conditioned automatic transmission stuff will pay a deserved premium SD and little boxes made of tickie tackie suitable for addressing the needs of the renters and solo mums will sell well.  The already postulated regional weighting in full effect.

 

I believe that many houses built now are built for profit more than as a place for people to live.

 

 

 

G

 

 


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