Sweden to reintroduce conscription

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#1643510 30-Sep-2016 20:45

MikeB4:

I am from a family with a very long military history and the overwhelming view is conscription is never successful. You wind up with the majority of recruits not wanting to be there and achieve nothing. Unless there is a conflict or imminent conflict it is a waste of money and time.

Not only that - when you put a bunch of unwilling young men together into this kind of adrenalin-filled environment full of violence, guns and that kind of thing, the potential consequences are deadly.

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oxnsox

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#1643526 30-Sep-2016 21:23

The risk to Sweeden of being in the vicinity of conflict is far greater than the risk to NZ.
Given the different risks/threats there's likely a very different public mindset around the requirement/need/acceptance of conscription in whatever form that takes.

Given the differences we're not really in a position to say what works or not for other countries.

gzt

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#1643527 30-Sep-2016 21:30

Hammerer:
MikeB4:

I do not believe that Russia is a threat to greater Europe. They are just posturing in the same manner as the US is, childish games.

I believe that Russia is a threat because it scores highly on many risk factors such as:

authoritarian regime with totalitarian tendencies

increasing state control of media

increasing limitation of human rights

election rigging and elimination of political opponents by legal and illegal means

a recent record of military intervention (e.g. Ukraine, Syria)

a national narrative that emphasises power and recovery of past empire

etc.

Your current dose of RT appears to be largely ineffective. ; ).

Geektastic

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#1643584 1-Oct-2016 00:34

oxnsox: The risk to Sweeden of being in the vicinity of conflict is far greater than the risk to NZ.
Given the different risks/threats there's likely a very different public mindset around the requirement/need/acceptance of conscription in whatever form that takes.

Given the differences we're not really in a position to say what works or not for other countries.

This is true. I grew up with the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain just a few hundred miles away, had friends and relatives stationed in Germany as part of the BAOR and so on. My view of Europe's geopolitics is quite different from that of people for whom the Berlin Wall may as well be Hadrian's Wall. I would not trust the Russkies or the Baltic States as far as I could throw them with my hands tied behind my back. Sweden will not regret this and places like Britain that have allowed themselves to be disarmed by foolish politicians who have allowed accountants to dictate military spending instead of soldiers had best get their acts together fairly quickly IMV.

Likewise my view of terrorism is coloured compared to a lot of New Zealanders, as I grew up amidst the PIRA mainland bombings of the 70's and 80's, had friends and relatives serving in Northern Ireland etc.

elpenguino

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#1643866 1-Oct-2016 15:08

You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence. Reasons:

The British government doesn't negotiate with terrorists and we know they negotiated with the IRA.

The IRA won which means they were ' freedom fighters ' .

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

frankv

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#1643881 1-Oct-2016 15:50

elpenguino: You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence.

Perhaps he means the terrorism inflicted on the irish by the British Govt?

robcreid

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#1643892 1-Oct-2016 16:39

elpenguino: You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence.

You just did.

The British government doesn't negotiate with terrorists and we know they negotiated with the IRA.

The British government negotiated with Sinn Féin didn't they rather than directly with the PIRA?

The IRA won which means they were ' freedom fighters ' .

Their goal was to "remove Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom and to bring about an independent republic encompassing all of Ireland" Neither of those things have happened.

Geektastic

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#1643896 1-Oct-2016 17:06

frankv:
elpenguino: You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence.

Perhaps he means the terrorism inflicted on the irish by the British Govt?

Really? That's the best you can come up with?

surfisup1000

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#1643898 1-Oct-2016 17:21

MikeB4:

I do not believe that Russia is a threat to greater Europe. They are just posturing in the same manner as the US is, childish games.

I lived in finland for a while -- there was serious concern about russia invading at some point in the future.

frankv

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#1643912 1-Oct-2016 17:51

Geektastic:
frankv:

elpenguino: You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence.

Perhaps he means the terrorism inflicted on the irish by the British Govt?

Really? That's the best you can come up with?

No. But I don't have all day to sit around thinking up erudite and witty responses to your comments, so you'll just have to put up with an immediate off-the-cuff observation.

JimmyH

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#1643926 1-Oct-2016 18:20

MikeB4:

I do not believe that Russia is a threat to greater Europe. They are just posturing in the same manner as the US is, childish games.

Many of the residents of the Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine might beg to differ?

Rikkitic

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#1643929 1-Oct-2016 18:38

Why do those traumatised by the past always seem to think that gives them special insight into the future?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

afe66

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#1643935 1-Oct-2016 19:15

Why do those who have never been traumatised think they know how the traumatised feel?

(we live in a very very sheltered country for which I am profoundly grateful. NZ is the first democracy I lived in after many years in countries with military dictatorships, death squads, starving children, surrounded by guards with large guns. As the song says in NZ "You dont know how lucky we are")

Rikkitic

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#1643957 1-Oct-2016 20:14

That is a fair point and I didn't mean to be glib. I was thinking more of the assumption that if conditions that led to something horrible in the past seem to be occurring again, that must inevitably lead to a repetition of the same horrible outcome, like history repeating itself. People who have experienced something like that may be very sensitive to something similar happening again, but that doesn't mean it will.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#1643986 1-Oct-2016 22:30

frankv:

Geektastic:
frankv:

elpenguino: You can't mention the IRA and terrorism in the same sentence.

Perhaps he means the terrorism inflicted on the irish by the British Govt?

Really? That's the best you can come up with?

No. But I don't have all day to sit around thinking up erudite and witty responses to your comments, so you'll just have to put up with an immediate off-the-cuff observation.

Last time I looked, terrorist atrocities was not really a subject commonly discussed in terms of "witty responses". I'm sure the relatives of the 1,800 or so civilians murdered by the PIRA rarely find much opportunity for wit when discussing it, that's for sure.

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