People's dress sense/standards at work

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#1645386 4-Oct-2016 19:37

Rikkitic:

Fred99:

I tried high heels once, to a party where you had to cross-dress, in Southland in a farming community - not where I'm from but felt I had to make the effort to fit in...
I don't know how that kind of theme for a party would go down in Russia, but not very well I expect.

The wig, makeup, undergarments, gown - all no problem. The shoes - you can absolutely forget it. I couldn't make it from the car to the front door.

Flats are always preferable to heels. Comfort over fashion any day.

Comfort is good, fashion is good, or is that a problem as well?

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dejadeadnz

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#1645418 4-Oct-2016 19:54

Rikkitic:

So what is a ridiculous dress requirement? I have seen examples of many organisations, business and public service, where some jumped-up minor tyrant insists that everyone wear a particular kind of clothing just because he thinks that is how it should be. People with little imagination or actual ability are often the ones who push this kind of thing. They hope that making a lot of noise about appearances will hide the fact that they are not actually very useful for anything.

That's all nice and emotive, as with most of your arguments. But if you think these rules are just made up by jumped up tyrants with no ability or whatever, I have reality to present to you: as one who has enforced dress standards, I have done this (usually) after explicit client complaints/remarks about the poor dress standards of my people or seeing people outright taking the piss (e.g. turning up to work in stained shirts). Some of you guys seem determined to believe that poorly-dressed NZ men who practice the art of utter indifference (obviously generalising a bit) are the only people that individuals in business (or anywhere for that matter) interact with.

gbwelly:

Are you a he or a she, and were you raised in NZ or overseas? I ask as both gender and country are mentioned in your statement.

I'd also ask: Who are they looking a gazillion times more professional for? Other men in poorly fitting shirts and badly tied ties?

Male. Born overseas, been here since 10, did post-grad in the US, and have worked in many different countries and with people from different cultures. Generally speaking, I find NZ men's dress/grooming standards to be some of the poorest that I have seen.

As for who I/people that work with/for me meet, see above. I would estimate that around half (or more) of my clients over the years across different workplaces and industries had some sort of overseas background and exposure.

tdgeek

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#1645421 4-Oct-2016 20:03

Rikkitic:

dejadeadnz:

Look, you go on and on about freedom of choice/people's individual freedom. But I love how you seem to have no regard for the standards of a workplace that an individual freely signs up to work at, nor the consequences for other colleagues were an individual to be perceived as inappropriately (or culturally offensively) underdressed when meeting clients, for example. As usual with a lot of your arguments, it's just all about what you like.

You bet it’s about what I like. Why should I argue for something I don’t like? I don’t work now but when I did I would never have worked for any place that insisted on ridiculous dress requirements and I never did.

So what is a ridiculous dress requirement? I have seen examples of many organisations, business and public service, where some jumped-up minor tyrant insists that everyone wear a particular kind of clothing just because he thinks that is how it should be. People with little imagination or actual ability are often the ones who push this kind of thing. They hope that making a lot of noise about appearances will hide the fact that they are not actually very useful for anything.

When I worked I did not have to comply with any particular dress standard because I was an outside contractor. I would dress up for meetings because it would have been insulting not to. I am not arguing that everyone should look like a slob. As I have already repeatedly stated, I don’t mind what people wear as long as it is reasonable. I do believe there should be standards, just not standards of uniformity. My objection is to expectations that everyone should look exactly the same and that those who don’t are somehow letting the side down. This is a silly, archaic way of thinking that has no place in the modern world and fortunately is gradually dying out.

Yawn. Same old comments, no matter what the topic

tdgeek

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#1645424 4-Oct-2016 20:08

dejadeadnz:

Rikkitic:

So what is a ridiculous dress requirement? I have seen examples of many organisations, business and public service, where some jumped-up minor tyrant insists that everyone wear a particular kind of clothing just because he thinks that is how it should be. People with little imagination or actual ability are often the ones who push this kind of thing. They hope that making a lot of noise about appearances will hide the fact that they are not actually very useful for anything.

That's all nice and emotive, as with most of your arguments. But if you think these rules are just made up by jumped up tyrants with no ability or whatever, I have reality to present to you: as one who has enforced dress standards, I have done this (usually) after explicit client complaints/remarks about the poor dress standards of my people or seeing people outright taking the piss (e.g. turning up to work in stained shirts). Some of you guys seem determined to believe that poorly-dressed NZ men who practice the art of utter indifference (obviously generalising a bit) are the only people that individuals in business (or anywhere for that matter) interact with.

gbwelly:

Are you a he or a she, and were you raised in NZ or overseas? I ask as both gender and country are mentioned in your statement.

I'd also ask: Who are they looking a gazillion times more professional for? Other men in poorly fitting shirts and badly tied ties?

Male. Born overseas, been here since 10, did post-grad in the US, and have worked in many different countries and with people from different cultures. Generally speaking, I find NZ men's dress/grooming standards to be some of the poorest that I have seen.

As for who I/people that work with/for me meet, see above. I would estimate that around half (or more) of my clients over the years across different workplaces and industries had some sort of overseas background and exposure.

There she goes, same old anti establishment and argumentativeness. This is a DISCUSSION. In many topics there is no right or wrong, unless its that same old dry rhetoric. If we want to dispense with a real discussion and have a handbag fest, I'm all in. Lets pop the FUG aside for a mo!

Handle9

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#1645431 4-Oct-2016 20:17

tdgeek: Yawn. Same old comments, no matter what the topic

OT but if you and @Rikkitic can't leave it at the door ito would be far better if you didn't comment on each other's posts. This has gotten very tiresome.

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#1645447 4-Oct-2016 20:50

Handle9:

OT but if you and @Rikkitic can't leave it at the door ito would be far better if you didn't comment on each other's posts. This has gotten very tiresome.

Fair enough. I know your posts, so I accept your criticism.

It is tiresome, reading discussions that are full of anti this and anti that, irregardless of the discussion. I;m not the only one that feels that way. Fortunately, unlike some, I don't respond to posts that disagree with me, by using that rhetoric. I could easily say what idiot would think that?? This is a discussion not a tea towel at 20 paces argument. But I hear you.

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#1645465 4-Oct-2016 21:10

tdgeek:
It is tiresome, reading discussions that are full of anti this and anti that, irregardless of the discussion. I;m not the only one that feels that way. Fortunately, unlike some, I don't respond to posts that disagree with me, by using that rhetoric. I could easily say what idiot would think that?? This is a discussion not a tea towel at 20 paces argument. But I hear you.

All good. There are people in this thread who I see posts from, roll my eyes and then move on as it'll just end up in a flame war if I respond. If it's about the topic I'm interested. If it's about someone who posted I'm moving on.

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#1645472 4-Oct-2016 21:40

I am more than happy to let this rest. I am not the one who has a need to comment on the other's behaviour.

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freitasm

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#1645496 4-Oct-2016 22:43

Deleted a couple of cheap shots. Better both stop now or there's a week cool-down waiting for you.

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#1645508 4-Oct-2016 23:18

As others have already said - School uniforms are completely pointless. Kids still sort out a social pecking order. I remember finding out how much money my mum had to spend on school uniforms for me. And thinking of all of the nice things she could have bought instead. (my family was low income at the time) I would have much preferred nicer food, or a warm house in winter. (she couldn't afford heaters in winter). Then I had to walk to school and home again in the uniform. As the school wouldn't allow you to walk to and from school in street clothes and get changed at school. So you would often be stinking of sweat all day. Or arrive at school soaking cold and wet. (approx 2.5K walk one way) This meant that at high school, owning a car meant a big jump up the pecking order. And meant I could finally get to and from school without stinking of sweat or soaking cold.

Other big organisations that wear uniforms - Police, Military ect. Everyone from the new recruits right up to the top brass wears the uniform. Definitely not the case with schools. And so far no one in this thread who needs to wear formal corporate suits or clothing. Has said that they have been forced to buy it from a particular company. So again different to schools.

Plumbing company I used to work for was a franchised company. Uniform was a polo shirt. But it was made out of that silly knit type artificial fabric. Which traps sweat in summer but lets the wind through in winter. Company provided van was a Mitsubishi L300 So no aircon. You would often be turning up to flash houses in Herne bay or Remuera, that would probably be owned by people who have to dress very formally for their job. Yet you would be covered in sweat as if you had just come from the gym. And the shirts they provided me were 3 sizes too large. So they couldn't even get that part right. And they only gave me 3, Which made it virtually impossible to keep them clean especially if you got sent to a construction site in the morning. Then a flash Herne bay home in the afternoon. You could tell the whole uniform thing was implemented by someone sitting in an office somewhere. Who had no connection with the people who actually had to visit customers houses.

Thankfully that plumbing company didn't have require or provide shorts or pants as part of the uniform. As my thighs are quite large compared to my waist. Which makes finding shorts or pants that fit me comfortably almost impossible.

My first job - working at McDonalds. At least they were able to provide a uniform that was the correct size for me.

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#1645523 4-Oct-2016 23:43

Wearing a McDonalds uniform would definitely not be my idea of a good time. However, I am not against uniforms if there is a good practical reason for them. I can certainly see the purpose of professional uniforms for the police, military, firefighters, and suchlike. That makes sense and has a purpose. Schools not so much. Offices also not so much.

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Geektastic

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#1645527 5-Oct-2016 00:01

MikeB4:

freitasm: On the subject of shoes I have been going around trying to find non-Chinese made leather shoes. A mission. There are some Portuguese, a couple of Italian but that's very small number compared. Some shops have "Italian made" posters but when you walk inside it is only one or two. Not funny.

Also, for the previous comment asking for photos... I know it was a jest but remember this is a family show.

Try Bullick Blackmore in Masterton

Remembering that they are probably only open until 1230 on a Saturday and not at all on Sunday...! Wairarapa Time, man....!

surfisup1000

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#1645529 5-Oct-2016 00:03

I find it amusing how a discussion on dress code can devolve into verbal fisticuffs haha.

Personally, I'm OK with smart casual.

I'm guessing dress code is just fashion, and evolves over time.

I started my working career wearing suits and over the years workplace dress code became more casual, and you just adapt.

However, unwashed/stained/old/messy/ill fitting clothes are a poor look - whether they are suits or less formal attire. I recall the days when it was popular to have cartoon characters on your tie - -maybe that was the beginning of the end?

But I respect the opinion of others who think formal dress is more appropriate in professional roles. Theres an argument for that but I prefer smart casual.

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#1645673 5-Oct-2016 09:36

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/313869/meth-found-in-airfreighted-high-heels

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#1645678 5-Oct-2016 09:41

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

freitasm: On the subject of shoes I have been going around trying to find non-Chinese made leather shoes. A mission. There are some Portuguese, a couple of Italian but that's very small number compared. Some shops have "Italian made" posters but when you walk inside it is only one or two. Not funny.

Also, for the previous comment asking for photos... I know it was a jest but remember this is a family show.

Try Bullick Blackmore in Masterton

Remembering that they are probably only open until 1230 on a Saturday and not at all on Sunday...! Wairarapa Time, man....!

Ooops forgot that, But worth it for the trip up in the morning then Greytown or Martinborough for lunch

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