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  # 1645700 5-Oct-2016 10:05
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I worked for a US company who were world famous for their strict dress code, so much so that when they relaxed the rules to allow women to wear trousers instead of dresses or skirts it made CNN!

Normal work attire for me is dress pants and dress shirt, or a suit and dress shirt, but no tie. Casual Friday is chinos and a collared shirt. I just don't feel right in jeans at work, except for "off site" events.

My last job was in a large government department (not public facing) where staff wore hoodies and track pants on casual Fridays. I couldn't believe it was allowed but nobody seemed to care.

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  # 1645703 5-Oct-2016 10:06
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dejadeadnz:

 

I find NZ men's dress/grooming standards to be some of the poorest that I have seen.

 

 

 

 

You make an interesting point. To some degree I think that comes somewhat from our farming and agricultural and casual laid back persona, the only factor I consider to be moderately significant, is the cost of clothing here. For example, I buy and wear non-iron good quality name brand shirts. Here those shirts are between $90 and $220 each, and in the US I buy them for $23USD. Levi's here are between 80-200 as well, depending on Style, in the USA I buy my Levi's for $25-40 USD each.

 

 

 

Interestingly, recently spending time in Germany and Spain the cost of clothing there SHOCKED me. SO expensive. 

 

 

 

Obviously, this doesn't address the stained, poorly cleaned and non-ironed clothes thing.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1645716 5-Oct-2016 10:24
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This would interest me if it affects work performance. Is there any indication that it does?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1645720 5-Oct-2016 10:26
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Rikkitic:

 

This would interest me if it affects work performance. Is there any indication that it does?

 

 

 

 

Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

 


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  # 1645730 5-Oct-2016 10:35
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Fred99:

 

.....  The shoes - you can absolutely forget it.  I couldn't make it from the car to the front door. 

 

 

Merkel's syndrome? :-)


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  # 1645740 5-Oct-2016 10:40
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frankv:

 

Fred99:

 

I tried high heels once, to a party where you had to cross-dress, in Southland in a farming community - not where I'm from but felt I had to make the effort to fit in...

 

Hmmm... so you were happy to conform so long as it involved wearing high heels, silky undergarments, and a dress?

 

.........

 

 

Sorry, but can't avoid attention to details, i.e. in the Fred99 post they mentioned "undergarments", they did not specifically say whether they were "silky" or maybe "cotton". How would frankv knew those were "silky"? Have you been at that party as well? :-)


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  # 1645743 5-Oct-2016 10:43
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networkn:

 

 Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

I accept that. My argument would be that we should move beyond that kind of superficiality and a way to start doing that is to abandon pointless dress codes. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1645746 5-Oct-2016 10:51
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

 Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

I accept that. My argument would be that we should move beyond that kind of superficiality and a way to start doing that is to abandon pointless dress codes. 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. I think dressing professionally is part of being professional. 

 

Another example... I was recently in Spain at a 3 Michelin star restaurant. I dressed for the occasion, it was spectacular from the views, to the decor, to the service, to the food (of course), They ask people to dress to a specific standard (Not particularly fancy but tidy etc), but there was a small party dressed in ripped jeans, very casual t-shirt with dirty sneakers. It wasn't cheap, and they could afford it, but to me, it lowered the tone of the restaurant to have someone sitting nearish me, dressed and behaving in a way that in my opinion, showed a lack of respect for what was trying to be achieved. 

 

 


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  # 1645748 5-Oct-2016 10:56
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

 Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

I accept that. My argument would be that we should move beyond that kind of superficiality and a way to start doing that is to abandon pointless dress codes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see standards as superficiality. Companies spend a fortune on image and branding it is not wrong for them to expect the staff they pay to project the standard they are paying for and under the terms in which they have employed them.

 

I am sure you expect professionalism, if you truly don't then you would hate to work for me, I expect ALL staff to dress appropriately and I expect a tidy work place and clear desk policy. I took an IT support team that had customer sat survey approvals at a dismal 30% and destined for outsourcing to a team with consistent 96%+ survey results, I put that down to a holistic approach to professionalism that included attire, tidy work place, clear desks and customer service training.

 

 

 

 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1645749 5-Oct-2016 10:58
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MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

 Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

I accept that. My argument would be that we should move beyond that kind of superficiality and a way to start doing that is to abandon pointless dress codes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see standards as superficiality. Companies spend a fortune on image and branding it is not wrong for them to expect the staff they pay to project the standard they are paying for and under the terms in which they have employed them.

 

I am sure you expect professionalism, if you truly don't then you would hate to work for me, I expect ALL staff to dress appropriately and I expect a tidy work place and clear desk policy. I took an IT support team that had customer sat survey approvals at a dismal 30% and destined for outsourcing to a team with consistent 96%+ survey results, I put that down to a holistic approach to professionalism that included attire, tidy work place, clear desks and customer service training.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

aka being professional.


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  # 1645769 5-Oct-2016 11:10
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

 Walk into a retail store in a suit. Walk in the following day in Jeans and a Hoodie. See what a difference it makes. Translate that to corporate. It affects performance. (maybe not of the person wearing the clothes directly but in how they are perceived and therefore treated which often translates to results).

 

 

 

I accept that. My argument would be that we should move beyond that kind of superficiality and a way to start doing that is to abandon pointless dress codes. 

 

 

I disagree. I think dressing professionally is part of being professional. 

 

Another example... I was recently in Spain at a 3 Michelin star restaurant. I dressed for the occasion, it was spectacular from the views, to the decor, to the service, to the food (of course), They ask people to dress to a specific standard (Not particularly fancy but tidy etc), but there was a small party dressed in ripped jeans, very casual t-shirt with dirty sneakers. It wasn't cheap, and they could afford it, but to me, it lowered the tone of the restaurant to have someone sitting nearish me, dressed and behaving in a way that in my opinion, showed a lack of respect for what was trying to be achieved. 

 

 

Sorry, not sorry but... It sounds like those Homeowner Associations that dictacte what colour one's house has to be, no treehouses in the garden, no cars parked on the street, etc, because otherwise the neighbourhood prices could go down and they can't have that.

 

I am all for looking good - as I said I have more suits, shirts and ties than a lot of people I know. And I wear them and I like doing so. I all for being dressed for the occasion too. But there's also a side to letting people express the way they feel - providing they keep tidy and clean.





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  # 1645771 5-Oct-2016 11:13
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I can see this becoming a circular argument so won't pursue it beyond this post. For me professionalism means competence, the ability to perform and do the work to the required standard. Also attitude in the way the work is approached and colleagues and business relations are treated. As I have said many times, neat and tidy is a reasonable standard, conformity in appearance for its own sake is not and just distracts from important things. Dress should be a matter of personal preference based on common sense, not dictates from on high. That is what I believe and I will leave it at this.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1645820 5-Oct-2016 12:19
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Rikkitic:

 

I can see this becoming a circular argument so won't pursue it beyond this post. For me professionalism means competence, the ability to perform and do the work to the required standard. Also attitude in the way the work is approached and colleagues and business relations are treated. As I have said many times, neat and tidy is a reasonable standard, conformity in appearance for its own sake is not and just distracts from important things. Dress should be a matter of personal preference based on common sense, not dictates from on high. That is what I believe and I will leave it at this.

 

 

Pretty much agree.

 

I am proud of the work I do. My work is of high quality and this is readily apparent. What did I look like while I was doing the work? Why is this even a thing?


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  # 1645838 5-Oct-2016 12:34
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RUKI:

 

 in the Fred99 post they mentioned "undergarments", they did not specifically say whether they were "silky" or maybe "cotton". How would frankv knew those were "silky"?

 

 

No story is too good to be embellished ;)

 

 

Have you been at that party as well? :-)

 

 

Not in Southland. But I can confirm that cool breezes up your skirt are very pleasant on a hot summer's day.

 

 


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  # 1645850 5-Oct-2016 12:53
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frankv:

 

RUKI:

 

 in the Fred99 post they mentioned "undergarments", they did not specifically say whether they were "silky" or maybe "cotton". How would frankv knew those were "silky"?

 

 

No story is too good to be embellished ;)

 

 

Have you been at that party as well? :-)

 

 

Not in Southland. But I can confirm that cool breezes up your skirt are very pleasant on a hot summer's day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holy cow Frank.  I wonder why I don't recall meeting you - despite the fact that we're about the same age and grew up in the same small town.  We could have teamed up and beaten my sister - to sit next to Santa on the float in the Xmas parade up the main street, waving our wands.


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