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  Reply # 1657959 26-Oct-2016 09:42
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Does it have to be military?




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  Reply # 1657961 26-Oct-2016 09:42
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In this particular case they were taking a sizeable business delegation to a showcase of some kind.  It makes sense with a large group on the same itinerary to take a dedicated aircraft.

 

Of course that all goes pear shaped if it breaks down.

 

The key limitation of the 757 is range.  They can't really fly it beyond the Pacific Islands without a fuel stop.  





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  Reply # 1657966 26-Oct-2016 09:47
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MikeB4:

 

My son had a few scary incidents on Military transports but still maintains the RNZAF aircraft are very well maintained. On C130s he had two major incidents, first one was returning from operations and flying over the Pacific when the C130 had multiple engine failure, the aircraft was put into a gradual decline descent until the pilots managed to restart the engines, he admits he was getting his spiritual matters in order. The second was while doing his para training at Whenuapai, a C130 he was on was travelling down the runway on its takeoff run when the pilot had to abort applying full brakes etc due to a failure, he still managed to complete the course over the weeks and obtain his wings.

 

He believes the worst aircraft he has flown in was a Russian Antanov  he flew in going to one deployment, it has rattly, smelly and has rust and holes on the inside of the aircraft and things would fall off if you touched them, but they got there.

 

 

 

 

You are the second person to say the Antanov is the worst plane they have ever flown in, to me, this week!

 

 


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  Reply # 1657967 26-Oct-2016 09:47
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joker97: Does it have to be military?

 

 

 

Yes, It is not just a executive plane it does military deployments, has cargo doors, hardened floors. It does flights to less than ideal landing strips EG Antarctica.  

 

They have enhanced comms, retractable stairs, enhanced auxiliary power, equipment for medical evacs





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  Reply # 1657973 26-Oct-2016 09:53
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flying over the Pacific when the C130 had multiple engine failure, the aircraft was put into a gradual decline descent until the pilots managed to restart the engines,

 

 

Actual engine failures are so rare that multiple simultaneous "engine failures" are much more likely to be a cockpit issue than an engine issue, and fuel management is most common. It would be unlikely that an engine that failed for some kind of mechanical or electrical reason could be restarted.

 

 


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  Reply # 1657978 26-Oct-2016 09:59
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MikeB4:

 

joker97: Does it have to be military?

 

Yes, It is not just a executive plane it does military deployments, has cargo doors, hardened floors. It does flights to less than ideal landing strips EG Antarctica.  

 

They have enhanced comms, retractable stairs, enhanced auxiliary power, equipment for medical evacs

 

 

Right. But, for this flight to India, could they not have chartered an aircraft from (say) AirNZ? The US military, for example, normally charters civilian aircraft for troop deployments.

 

Presumably the 757 wasn't needed for other duties at this time. Presumably the cost of having a dedicated aircraft was less than the cost of buying seats and cargo space on scheduled commercial flights.

 

 


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  Reply # 1657979 26-Oct-2016 09:59
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Give poor old Mr Key a new AirBus for all his travels, the taxpayer can afford it. He travels out this country quite often doesn't he...


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  Reply # 1657982 26-Oct-2016 10:01
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frankv:

 

flying over the Pacific when the C130 had multiple engine failure, the aircraft was put into a gradual decline descent until the pilots managed to restart the engines,

 

 

Actual engine failures are so rare that multiple simultaneous "engine failures" are much more likely to be a cockpit issue than an engine issue, and fuel management is most common. It would be unlikely that an engine that failed for some kind of mechanical or electrical reason could be restarted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

where ever the fault was made no difference to him.





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Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  Reply # 1657997 26-Oct-2016 10:15
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Maybe this is what they need:

 

http://www.gulfstream.com/aircraft/gulfstream-g650

 

 

 

http://www.gulfstream.com/images/uploads/brochures/aircraft/Gulfstream_G650_Brochure.pdf

 

 

 

http://www.gulfstream.com/aircraft#rangemaps 

 

 

 

 

 

Huge range, speed, quality, big enough for PM plus staff, proven.    Bet these would have excellent dispatch reliability.

 

No shame in turning up in the Rolls Royce of biz jets!

 

Might need a longish runway but who cares.    At long range cruise this baby can go from Sydney to Dubai non-stop.   Or Sydney to LAX.

 

If the PM wants to go to India or China with a big trade delegation then just go commercial.    Book seats a year ahead on Air NZ or on one of the Chinese airlines.

 

And then maybe buy some new cargo aircraft.    If they need to deploy troops for the USA's next war adventure just phone up the Donald or Hillary and say yes we can but the guys will

 

need to get there courtesy of the USAF.

 

PS

 

Cost of this Gulfstream around US $66 million    Cost of two C17's around NZ 600 million according to a google search.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiRyFd3oNI for a tour of the plane that John Key would probably love to buy but for political reasons cannot!


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  Reply # 1658018 26-Oct-2016 10:37
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amiga500:

 

 

 

Cost of this Gulfstream around US $66 million    Cost of two C17's around NZ 600 million according to a google search.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiRyFd3oNI for a tour of the plane that John Key would probably love to buy but for political reasons cannot!

 

 

 

 

Sadly the small mindedness of Kiwi's will prevent that, but perhaps he could come to an arrangement with Peter Jackson who has one on order. I think it arrives pretty soon. 

 

 

 

Problem with that, is the same small minded Kiwi's would then start up on conspiracy of collusion.


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  Reply # 1658019 26-Oct-2016 10:38
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So where is this aeroplane people keep talking about that can be chartered from AirNZ supposed to come from? As i understand it the current fleet is fairly heavily utilised. Might be able to crowbar a 767 out of the schedule, as they are being phased out, but i would think the operational planners at AirNZ would maximise aircraft usage where possible.

If the RNZAF 757 had got the delegation there successfully would the media have even noted that? Or is that expected? Simon Dallow's news promo last afternoon made my blood boil. "Air Force or air farce" was his narrative. But then I guess TVNZ's news is always perfect, never a mistake, dropped link or misspelled caption. I have good friends who maintain and fly RNZAF aircraft and you wouldn't find a more professional or dedicated bunch of people anywhere




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  Reply # 1658021 26-Oct-2016 10:43
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Dingbatt: So where is this aeroplane people keep talking about that can be chartered from AirNZ supposed to come from? As i understand it the current fleet is fairly heavily utilised. Might be able to crowbar a 767 out of the schedule, as they are being phased out, but i would think the operational planners at AirNZ would maximise aircraft usage where possible.

If the RNZAF 757 had got the delegation there successfully would the media have even noted that? Or is that expected? Simon Dallow's news promo last afternoon made my blood boil. "Air Force or air farce" was his narrative. But then I guess TVNZ's news is always perfect, never a mistake, dropped link or misspelled caption. I have good friends who maintain and fly RNZAF aircraft and you wouldn't find a more professional or dedicated bunch of people anywhere

 

 

 

This

 

 





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 1658039 26-Oct-2016 11:12
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Ah but New Zealanders don't think outside the box to keep costs in check. They have to follow either protocols or habits of convenience and transfer incurred costs to a 3rd party. Just my observation.




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  Reply # 1658044 26-Oct-2016 11:30
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Does NZ really need cargo aircraft at all?    If we want to deliver emergency supplies to islands in the Pacific just charter some cargo aircraft or send a naval ship.    Maybe all the RNZAF should have is some maritime patrol capability,  & helicopters for general use.    Pilots could train in the USA and transition onto the P3 Orions.     What are we really going to do with 2 C17s at $600 million - try to deploy the friggin' LAVs to somewhere in the Pacific?    They would probably get shot down with shoulder launched SAMs on approach to the airport.


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  Reply # 1658045 26-Oct-2016 11:31
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joker97: Ah but New Zealanders don't think outside the box to keep costs in check. They have to follow either protocols or habits of convenience and transfer incurred costs to a 3rd party. Just my observation.

 

 

 

I don't want us to think outside the box when it comes to maintaining aircraft. I don't want them using #8 wire ingenuity either. I want them to follow the guidelines provided by the manufacturer at any cost. 

 

 


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