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  Reply # 1720285 14-Feb-2017 22:31
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Sideface:

 

Just received from Petitions: UK Government and Parliament

"You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.

"Dear #####,

"The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.


HM Government believes the President of the United States should be extended the full courtesy of a State Visit. We look forward to welcoming President Trump once dates and arrangements are finalised.
HM Government recognises the strong views expressed by the many* signatories of this petition, but does not support this petition.
During her visit to the United States on 27 January 2017, the Prime Minister, on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen, invited President Trump for a State Visit to the UK later this year. The invitation was accepted. This invitation reflects the importance of the relationship between the United States of America and the United Kingdom. At this stage, final dates have not yet been agreed for the State Visit.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.
The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament


*  More than 1.8 million Brits signed this petition.

 

 


Ergo more than 62 million Brits did not sign this petition...






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  Reply # 1720298 14-Feb-2017 22:48
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What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1720301 14-Feb-2017 23:04
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Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

What would that make it? 180 million brits?! :D





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  Reply # 1720315 14-Feb-2017 23:14
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An interesting comparison

Original article was in Bloomberg

Trump compared to Muldoon

Clint

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  Reply # 1720317 14-Feb-2017 23:22
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Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

I don't see that at all. You would need just a mere 1% to establish a 100% agreement. 

 

There will be many or some that agree but don't sign, but they cannot be very strong with that agreement, if they can't be bothered signing. Its a numbers game, nothing can be implied. 


gzt

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  Reply # 1720318 14-Feb-2017 23:25
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clinty: An interesting comparison

Original article was in Bloomberg

Trump compared to Muldoon

Clint

Interesting but largely off base. The biggest clanger:

"Because New Zealand's parliamentary system of government has fewer checks and balances than the American system, Muldoon got more done than Trump likely will."

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  Reply # 1720320 14-Feb-2017 23:38
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tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

I don't see that at all. You would need just a mere 1% to establish a 100% agreement. 

 

There will be many or some that agree but don't sign, but they cannot be very strong with that agreement, if they can't be bothered signing. Its a numbers game, nothing can be implied. 

 

 

 

 

In this day and age, there will also be a proportion who sign just because other people they know signed and they do not want to be the only non-joiners...

 

Combined with the fact that clicking a quick mouse button etc is not much of an effort and you'll certainly have a another proportion who aren't THAT bothered but it was easy to do and their husband, wife, partner, girlfriend or whatever was doing it so they thought they would.

 

Compare it with  the Countryside March when Blair was banning fox hunting: 300,000 - 400,000 actual people (depending on who's count you believe) turned up in London (i.e.  the entire population of Wellington!) to the largest protest rally Britain had ever seen - and  they were ignored...! I would not really expect an online petition to be much more than opium for the masses.






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  Reply # 1720323 14-Feb-2017 23:44
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gzt:
clinty: An interesting comparison

Original article was in Bloomberg

Trump compared to Muldoon

Clint

Interesting but largely off base. The biggest clanger:

"Because New Zealand's parliamentary system of government has fewer checks and balances than the American system, Muldoon got more done than Trump likely will."

 

Interesting. Trump is GOP, as is the Senate and Upper House. Should be plain sailing, but in this isolated case, Trump is the check and balance.


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  Reply # 1720325 15-Feb-2017 00:06
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Geektastic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

I don't see that at all. You would need just a mere 1% to establish a 100% agreement. 

 

There will be many or some that agree but don't sign, but they cannot be very strong with that agreement, if they can't be bothered signing. Its a numbers game, nothing can be implied. 

 

 

 

 

In this day and age, there will also be a proportion who sign just because other people they know signed and they do not want to be the only non-joiners...

 

Combined with the fact that clicking a quick mouse button etc is not much of an effort and you'll certainly have a another proportion who aren't THAT bothered but it was easy to do and their husband, wife, partner, girlfriend or whatever was doing it so they thought they would.

 

Compare it with  the Countryside March when Blair was banning fox hunting: 300,000 - 400,000 actual people (depending on who's count you believe) turned up in London (i.e.  the entire population of Wellington!) to the largest protest rally Britain had ever seen - and  they were ignored...! I would not really expect an online petition to be much more than opium for the masses.

 

 

Where I was coming from was the squeaky wheel syndrome. If everyone had to vote, you get a result. Representative. If you don't have to vote, the desire is the "had to vote" result, but as many cant be arsed, its raining, its not that important, they don't vote. But all of the aggressive, ardent followers vote, which skews the result. Its similar to a degree to those who say Trump only won 25% of the vote. Or those who say he won as the majority voted for him under the electoral system. If Hillary had won, the same applies, she only got 25% of the vote, and so on.

 

Take the Flag vote here . Those who voted for the new flag, voted for the new flag as I'd like it, time for a change, good idea. A low turnout. But those who wanted the old flag came out in force, as its LIKE HELL WE ARE LOSING THE NZ FLAG. But the actual desired result may well have been quite different.

 

Wet weather on NZ election day. ALL National voters will vote whatever the weather. Labour voters, its too cold. Their fault, but again the result is not representative.

 

There is often a bias, that does not represent the desire of the populous. Compulsory voting is the answer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1720331 15-Feb-2017 00:55
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Geektastic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

 

 

I don't see that at all. You would need just a mere 1% to establish a 100% agreement. 

 

There will be many or some that agree but don't sign, but they cannot be very strong with that agreement, if they can't be bothered signing. Its a numbers game, nothing can be implied. 

 

 

 

 

In this day and age, there will also be a proportion who sign just because other people they know signed and they do not want to be the only non-joiners...

 

Combined with the fact that clicking a quick mouse button etc is not much of an effort and you'll certainly have a another proportion who aren't THAT bothered but it was easy to do and their husband, wife, partner, girlfriend or whatever was doing it so they thought they would.

 

Compare it with  the Countryside March when Blair was banning fox hunting: 300,000 - 400,000 actual people (depending on who's count you believe) turned up in London (i.e.  the entire population of Wellington!) to the largest protest rally Britain had ever seen - and  they were ignored...! I would not really expect an online petition to be much more than opium for the masses.

 

 

Different era..cant compare.


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  Reply # 1720364 15-Feb-2017 06:47
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

There is often a bias, that does not represent the desire of the populous. Compulsory voting is the answer. 

 

 

 

 

Compulsory voting will only work in my opinion if the actual voting population understands the need and importance of voting itself.  The whole concept of being a citizen and your civic duties needs to be reinforced in our education system so that children at their very youngest understand that when coming of voting age that it is critical for democracy to work, and then keep this up through their education to reinforce.  I guess a similar concept to social studies but needs to consider how voting impacts on the way we live and the laws we create... IF we just implement compulsory voting we'll still have the same voter disengagement we have now but with more people trying to avoid voting illegally!


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  Reply # 1720366 15-Feb-2017 07:13
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Benoire:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

There is often a bias, that does not represent the desire of the populous. Compulsory voting is the answer. 

 

 

 

 

Compulsory voting will only work in my opinion if the actual voting population understands the need and importance of voting itself.  The whole concept of being a citizen and your civic duties needs to be reinforced in our education system so that children at their very youngest understand that when coming of voting age that it is critical for democracy to work, and then keep this up through their education to reinforce.  I guess a similar concept to social studies but needs to consider how voting impacts on the way we live and the laws we create... IF we just implement compulsory voting we'll still have the same voter disengagement we have now but with more people trying to avoid voting illegally!

 

 

Agree. Voting coud become a "damn I have to vote today" rather than a duty to NZ


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  Reply # 1720372 15-Feb-2017 08:12
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Rikkitic:

 

What is the ratio again? For everyone who bothers to sign a petition, another 100 agree with it. Or something like that.

 

 

 

There are two concurrent UK petitions, both due to be debated on 20 February:

 

  • Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.   1,856,847 signatures

  • Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom.    310,416 signatures

(Today's figures)

 

Note the ratio of 6 to 1.





Sideface


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  Reply # 1720398 15-Feb-2017 08:52
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Sideface:

 

Just received from Petitions: UK Government and Parliament

"You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.

"Dear #####,

"The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.


HM Government believes the President of the United States should be extended the full courtesy of a State Visit. We look forward to welcoming President Trump once dates and arrangements are finalised.
HM Government recognises the strong views expressed by the many* signatories of this petition, but does not support this petition.
During her visit to the United States on 27 January 2017, the Prime Minister, on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen, invited President Trump for a State Visit to the UK later this year. The invitation was accepted. This invitation reflects the importance of the relationship between the United States of America and the United Kingdom. At this stage, final dates have not yet been agreed for the State Visit.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.
The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament


*  More than 1.8 million Brits signed this petition.

 

 

On the positive, let's cross fingers that the Brits put on some monumental street protests to welcome him.


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  Reply # 1720400 15-Feb-2017 08:59
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Compulsory voting in my view breeches one of the foundations of a free society.




Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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