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  Reply # 1673625 18-Nov-2016 14:56
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A lot of the cheap android ones do still have fm radio. In these earthquakes which knocked out my power for about 8 hours I had to rely on a $20 android phone for a radio, as I couldn't find another radio that had batteries. kind of big fail that they removed fm radio from the expensive ones. I guess the cheaper ones still have it because they are using older generation designs and chips


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  Reply # 1673706 18-Nov-2016 16:18
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Pumpedd:

 

I live at Raumati Beach a stones throw from the sea and I heard large volumes of traffic immediately after the quake as residents fled to higher ground. As for me I hopelessly tried to find a radio station that was broadcasting relevant details about what to do. The commercial stations were clearly all running on remote and all I could find was talk back..which was fine but it still gave conflicting stories as what to do. (This was after the electricity came back on)

 

I too am pleased to see the Government shake up emergency processes as clearly local government isnt  up to the task. In Kapiti we dont have tsunami sirens, not sure what we have to be honest..other than high rates and newly over paid elected officials.

 

IMO we do need a SMS system but also emergency radio frequencies as cellular networks are very fickle in natural disasters due to damage and over use. The bunker under the beehive should be broadcasting the information directly via emergency radio frequencies.

 

People do panic during emergencies and dont always think clearly, so we do need to rely on timely and easily available emergency information.

 

 

A very similar story to what happened to us in Lower Hutt except that our electricity went off during the big quake and came on 11 hours later. We are supposed to get up-to-date Wellington news from Newstalk ZB Wellington, but it was mainly irrelevant talk-back chat and lots of commercials. I think it may have been better to listen to Radio New Zealand, which at least doesn't have commercials, but I'm not sure whether it would have told Lower Hutt residents whether or not to evacuate their homes? The updates on Stuff were well worth looking at, but probably not specific enough to take action on.

 

You say you heard large volumes of traffic immediately after the quake and if you live in a tsunami zone, this seems to be the only sensible answer. That is, after a huge, long, quake, get into your car and drive to higher ground straight away before the "masses" block the road and get washed away by a tsunami! And if there isn't a tsunami, at least you didn't waste a whole lot of valuable time wondering why on earth the local radio stations were telling you about Briscoes next sale and not telling you whether you should evacuate or not! And why wait for tsunami sirens, in our case they didn't get going until nearly 3 hours after the big quake, which only served to wake us up instead of telling us something new.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1673711 18-Nov-2016 16:28
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A clear example of why NZ needs a dedicated public emergency radio station. The private stations can't be expected to have sutiable resources, and RNZ is apparently underfunded. Although RNZ did fairly well with the resources they did have.


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  Reply # 1673715 18-Nov-2016 16:32
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freitasm:

 

No, I wouldn't count on smartphones for radio. Most don't have anymore and if they do you need to plug headphones to work as antennas.

 

 

 

 

That would also count the new iPhone out then, as it has no headphone port, although they have never had FM radio on it. The stupid thing is these mobile phone companies seem to think that an radio app will be better, so didn't think having an FM radio was needed. However after an EQ, cellphone coverage also maybe down, or more likely overloaded, so they become hopeless. So buying a cheap phone with an FM radio maybe a good idea for many.The same problem exists with Fibre, where after the earthquake many people who have fibre couldn't make calls on the landline, as it now needs power. So you really need a battery to power fibre, if you want an emergency landline.


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  Reply # 1673820 18-Nov-2016 19:50
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mattwnz:

 

A clear example of why NZ needs a dedicated public emergency radio station. The private stations can't be expected to have sutiable resources, and RNZ is apparently underfunded. Although RNZ did fairly well with the resources they did have.

 

 

Or they could just fund RNZ properly.


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  Reply # 1673823 18-Nov-2016 19:55
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frankv:

 

 

 

From news videos I've seen (Japan, Indian Ocean tsunamis) I think that a tsunami isn't so much a lateral wave as a rapid rising of the sea level. So I would imagine that there would be quite a torrent of water flowing through Wellington Heads (perhaps also across Rongotai?) into the harbour. Any ship/boat in that area would be in serious trouble. But Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly. Based on that, I'd say that there wouldn't be much of a funneling effect or surge up the Hutt Valley... that would require a rapid increase in water level in the harbour. So, generally speaking anything that's more than 10m vertically above sea level in the Hutt Valley would be safe from a 10m high tsunami. (NB: elevations are usually given above Mean Seal Level... if the tsunami arrived at high tide, during a storm, it might be another 3-4? metres higher). Presumably CD has consulted with hydrodynamics engineers (I'm not one) so would have taken all that into account when drawing up that map, and therefore in deciding where to place the sirens.

 

Incidentally, 10km from Petone Beach is about the Taita Gorge/Stokes Valley area... i.e. it would encompass all of the valley floor part of Lower Hutt. The yellow on the map seems to reach to about Melling Station? which is about 3.5-4km from the coast.

 

 

 

 

When the tsunami reached CHCH I gather it was small. Past Lyttelton is Pigeon Bay and Little Pigeon bay which has a retired homestead. Thus homestead had a 5m tsunami as the bay narrows. Where water arrives but cannot go needs to be taken into account. The 2004 tsunami was miles away, so that was a wall of water travelling at airliner speed. The water doesnt move, its the water level that traveled at high speed. It arrived, slowed in shallow water but it kept coming. Here, as the tsunami is close, its more likely to be endless waves. But again, when the water fills the void and its still arriving or waving thats a big issue. It has to go somewhere.


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  Reply # 1673825 18-Nov-2016 19:59
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alasta:

 

mattwnz:

 

A clear example of why NZ needs a dedicated public emergency radio station. The private stations can't be expected to have sutiable resources, and RNZ is apparently underfunded. Although RNZ did fairly well with the resources they did have.

 

 

Or they could just fund RNZ properly.

 

 

Yes. Not for radio but for the default standard emergency station. We have had three 7.8's. Many others. Its now not a history book learning exercise its day to day life. ChCh happened, so theoretically we are safe for 10,000 years. Not so, as we see. Alpine Fault. Other faults. Other unknown faults. Japan knows that, and this young country is now Japan. Its now standard, BAU, normal, so prepare ourselves.


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  Reply # 1673826 18-Nov-2016 20:00
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mattwnz:

 

freitasm:

 

No, I wouldn't count on smartphones for radio. Most don't have anymore and if they do you need to plug headphones to work as antennas.

 

 

 

 

That would also count the new iPhone out then, as it has no headphone port, although they have never had FM radio on it. The stupid thing is these mobile phone companies seem to think that an radio app will be better, so didn't think having an FM radio was needed. However after an EQ, cellphone coverage also maybe down, or more likely overloaded, so they become hopeless. So buying a cheap phone with an FM radio maybe a good idea for many.The same problem exists with Fibre, where after the earthquake many people who have fibre couldn't make calls on the landline, as it now needs power. So you really need a battery to power fibre, if you want an emergency landline.

 

 

To be fair, smartphones are about the technology, not also including old outdated technology for rare disasters. 


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  Reply # 1673827 18-Nov-2016 20:01
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MikeB4:

 

frednz:

 

MikeB4:

 

hoping for a quiet day.

 

 

Yes, I can understand that, so here's hoping, at least the Government is saying that a Civil Defence overhaul is inevitable after all the tsunami confusion so this must be a step in the right direction!

 

There was complete confusion, for example, in Lower Hutt where the sirens went continuously for more than half an hour, but they were activated nearly 3 hours after the earthquake, which must surely have been too late?

 

So, before, during, and after the sirens had sounded, we tuned in to Newstalk ZB Wellington but there were no instructions about whether it was necessary to evacuate or not in north Lower Hutt. Some of the time while we were listening to Newstalk ZB, there were commercials, can you believe it, commercials at a time of so-called crisis! Was National Radio any better, at least there wouldn't have been commercials?

 

The sirens were sounding loudly many kilometres north of Petone Beach, say at least 10k north, yet people were jumping into their cars and clogging up the roads driving north (and up hills) to nowhere because they thought a tsunami might swallow up the whole of the Hutt Valley! So did the tsunami alert apply just to within 2 or 3k of the coast, or even up as far as 10k north of the coast?

 

And the tsunami alert apparently wasn't lifted until late Monday afternoon and some people were frightened to go back to their homes in Lower Hutt until this alert was lifted!

 

Incidentally, rest homes in the Wellington district don't seem to have been evacuated, even Rita Angus which is quite close to Lyall Bay!

 

So, I agree with the Government that a Civil Defence overhaul must surely be inevitable!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think they did anything wrong in Lower Hutt. The Hutt Valley is a wide alluvial plain with a large river that has a wide estuary, there is also another wide stream. At the river mouth there is a fuel terminal and large petrol and oil storage tanks. 

 

The valley has a gentle rise up most of it with high hills each side that will funnel and tsunami or surge. The river could take a surge quite a distance up cause the river to breach its banks.

 

Here is the tsunami map for Hutt.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks very much Mike for this helpful information. I have had a look at the Lower Hutt tsunami evacuation zones on the above map and I acknowledge that Lower Hutt has the special features that you mention and, in particular the Hutt River which is red-zoned for about 1.8k on its passage northward up the valley (although the main river flow is from north to south to the sea).

 

The distance from the sea to the outer evacuation yellow zone is no more than a maximum of about 3km, so northern Lower Hutt suburbs such as Stokes Valley (15k north from the sea), Taita (11.2k north), Naenae (9.2k north) and Avalon (9.1k north) are well out of the tsunami zones. However, some of these suburbs could clearly hear the loud tsunami siren, which I think just meant that people should listen to their radios and get the latest advice available. I don't think it meant that everyone in these northern suburbs should immediately evacuate their homes (as some people thought). People who evacuated from the suburbs that are well out of the tsunami zones merely clogged up the roads and made it difficult for people who really did need to evacuate because they lived close to the sea.

 

I think it's really necessary that everyone should be aware of their tsunami evacuation zones and perhaps Civil Defence should send out maps to all households? Also, if there is a real need to evacuate, you would think that a few trucks with loudspeakers would be going around telling people to evacuate immediately. After all, this happens when the Council turns the water off, so it shouldn't be too hard to do this when there is a serious event going on!


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  Reply # 1673831 18-Nov-2016 20:23
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frankv:

 

 

 

From news videos I've seen (Japan, Indian Ocean tsunamis) I think that a tsunami isn't so much a lateral wave as a rapid rising of the sea level. So I would imagine that there would be quite a torrent of water flowing through Wellington Heads (perhaps also across Rongotai?) into the harbour. Any ship/boat in that area would be in serious trouble. But Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly. Based on that, I'd say that there wouldn't be much of a funneling effect or surge up the Hutt Valley... that would require a rapid increase in water level in the harbour. So, generally speaking anything that's more than 10m vertically above sea level in the Hutt Valley would be safe from a 10m high tsunami. (NB: elevations are usually given above Mean Seal Level... if the tsunami arrived at high tide, during a storm, it might be another 3-4? metres higher). Presumably CD has consulted with hydrodynamics engineers (I'm not one) so would have taken all that into account when drawing up that map, and therefore in deciding where to place the sirens.

 

Incidentally, 10km from Petone Beach is about the Taita Gorge/Stokes Valley area... i.e. it would encompass all of the valley floor part of Lower Hutt. The yellow on the map seems to reach to about Melling Station? which is about 3.5-4km from the coast.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Frank, I'm pleased to see that you think Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly, which makes sense to me. In any event, I don't think the 7.8 quake was deep out at sea. If this had been the case, would this increase the possibility of a major tsunami? 

 

I agree that there is also a possibility of a torrent of water flowing across Wellington Airport and through to the harbour (perhaps not a good place to have a major airport)! Yes, Taita is about 11km north of the sea and Stokes Valley is about 15km north of the sea, so when you look at the map of the tsunami evacuation zones for Lower Hutt you are dealing with a maximum evacuation distance of only about 3.5km, so the northern suburbs should be fairly safe from a tsunami (despite the loud 40 minute howling of a siren way north of this 3.5km area)! But, it's better to be safe than sorry, even though the siren was a few hours late in starting. I don't think all that many Lower Hutt residents have studied the tsunami evacuation zones map and some panicked unnecessarily and evacuated from "safe" properties.

 

 


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  Reply # 1673880 18-Nov-2016 21:37
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frednz:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

From news videos I've seen (Japan, Indian Ocean tsunamis) I think that a tsunami isn't so much a lateral wave as a rapid rising of the sea level. So I would imagine that there would be quite a torrent of water flowing through Wellington Heads (perhaps also across Rongotai?) into the harbour. Any ship/boat in that area would be in serious trouble. But Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly. Based on that, I'd say that there wouldn't be much of a funneling effect or surge up the Hutt Valley... that would require a rapid increase in water level in the harbour. So, generally speaking anything that's more than 10m vertically above sea level in the Hutt Valley would be safe from a 10m high tsunami. (NB: elevations are usually given above Mean Seal Level... if the tsunami arrived at high tide, during a storm, it might be another 3-4? metres higher). Presumably CD has consulted with hydrodynamics engineers (I'm not one) so would have taken all that into account when drawing up that map, and therefore in deciding where to place the sirens.

 

Incidentally, 10km from Petone Beach is about the Taita Gorge/Stokes Valley area... i.e. it would encompass all of the valley floor part of Lower Hutt. The yellow on the map seems to reach to about Melling Station? which is about 3.5-4km from the coast.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Frank, I'm pleased to see that you think Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly, which makes sense to me. In any event, I don't think the 7.8 quake was deep out at sea. If this had been the case, would this increase the possibility of a major tsunami? 

 

I agree that there is also a possibility of a torrent of water flowing across Wellington Airport and through to the harbour (perhaps not a good place to have a major airport)! Yes, Taita is about 11km north of the sea and Stokes Valley is about 15km north of the sea, so when you look at the map of the tsunami evacuation zones for Lower Hutt you are dealing with a maximum evacuation distance of only about 3.5km, so the northern suburbs should be fairly safe from a tsunami (despite the loud 40 minute howling of a siren way north of this 3.5km area)! But, it's better to be safe than sorry, even though the siren was a few hours late in starting. I don't think all that many Lower Hutt residents have studied the tsunami evacuation zones map and some panicked unnecessarily and evacuated from "safe" properties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Miramar and the airport all came out of the sea from the big quake years ago and was described as a washing machine through there, so it is likely to be the same. on the back of all of this tech talk about people's phones etc, I was just thinking about peer to peer wireless network suing peoples mobile phones etc. something called "life net"? Anyone know anything about them would they be practical in our Hilly windy city (Welly)


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  Reply # 1673954 19-Nov-2016 08:12
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tdgeek:

 

The water doesnt move, its the water level that traveled at high speed. 

 

 

Water is incompressible, so the water level can't change unless water moves.


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  Reply # 1673955 19-Nov-2016 08:18
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Wondering about an AM and/or FM radio dongle for phones, to plug into the microUSB port? Not sure about Apple devices.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1673963 19-Nov-2016 09:01
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

The water doesnt move, its the water level that traveled at high speed. 

 

 

Water is incompressible, so the water level can't change unless water moves.

 

 

I meant that water from a tsunami doesn't move at airliner speed from A to B. The level moves. Which is why ships are not heavy affected out to sea as its like a swell. 


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  Reply # 1673965 19-Nov-2016 09:06
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frankv:

 

Wondering about an AM and/or FM radio dongle for phones, to plug into the microUSB port? Not sure about Apple devices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL Apple is becoming the dongle king. On a serious note, that is a good option. Radio is bigger, batteries, a dongle would be a good option, as it vastly increases the ease in having it with you. One on the car, one in the work bag, etc, assuming they are cheap


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