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  Reply # 1677431 25-Nov-2016 13:59
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networkn:

 

DjShadow:

 

Pretty bad news about Event Cinemas and the carpark under it as the Hutt City Council are saying it should be demolished. That section of the mall is only roughly 10 years old also.

 

 

That's disgraceful in my opinion. No building built in the last 10 years should be broken so badly on a earthquakee this size. I wonder if there are legal ramifications.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt it. Everyone seems very adept at avoiding liability in NZ.






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  Reply # 1677435 25-Nov-2016 14:02
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

DjShadow:

 

Pretty bad news about Event Cinemas and the carpark under it as the Hutt City Council are saying it should be demolished. That section of the mall is only roughly 10 years old also.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am quite familiar with that building, and am surprised to hear that. It is an odd design, as you have two levels of car parks, and then the cinema above it, so had a lot of weight at the top of the structure. So it relies on big steel bracing frames below the cinema to provide the lateral support. Apparently that mall is made up of over 10 buildings. Some of the mall is actually a lot older than 10 years, as some of the existing structure was reused when it was redeveloped, although I think the older parts are on the other side of the mall from the cinema.

 

 

 

It does seem that due to the forces of this quake buildings between 3-15 stories have been affected the worst. Shorter and taller buildings seem to have performed quite well.

 

 

I remember watching the major rebuild of it happen, the original part of the mall is the bunny st side of the foodcourt and hallway if I can call it that to around where JB Hifi is. 

 

They opened it in 4 sections as it was built.

 

Guess Westfield are glad they don't have to deal with this!


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1677439 25-Nov-2016 14:06
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I think Farmers is also in an original building. In fact I don't think it was ever closed during the rebuild.

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  Reply # 1677447 25-Nov-2016 14:20
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To believe that buildings should never be at risk of damage is crazy.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  Reply # 1678298 27-Nov-2016 14:43
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MikeB4: To believe that buildings should never be at risk of damage is crazy.

 

 

 

While that's true, designing them so that they can still be serviceable and safe after what I expect for Wgn region should have been an expected 1:50 year probability for ground shaking would be a pretty reasonable minimum standard.

 

Of course there's the other side to it - design based on pages of calculations based on testing which can't exclude all possibilities, whether they're failure to identify local behaviour of the ground, missing something in construction - some error which went unnoticed etc - it's going to happen.  I guess at least out of many thousands of Wgtn buildings, only a few have failed.




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  Reply # 1678318 27-Nov-2016 15:07
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I find this quite scary:

 

 

At the South, there have been major fault ruptures, perhaps a bit unusual (Chch and particularly the recent M7.8 event - unusual in that both involved multiple fault ruptures) as well as relatively major events to the North and to the West (Wairarapa).  But there's nothing moving much at all in the centre of that zone, right under the Wairarapa, and it's a sharp transition between the slow slip quake and the slow movement under the S Wairarapa.

 

But they haven't been monitoring these "slow quakes" for long, they probably know that what's going on is bringing forward the inevitable, but does "bringing forward" mean that it's likely to happen in the next year or two instead of the next 100 years, or happen in the next 100 or 500 years instead of the next 10,000 years?  I think the answer is that they don't know.  Even forgetting a megathrust event to the E and the 1855 event, there have been at least 3 >M7 events in that area, 1934, and 1942 (x2).  The 1855 event was preceded by a M7.4- M7.7 event of the Awatere fault in 1849.  Plot 150 years of quakes, and there was a tendency for major events to happen in the SI, then be followed by major events in the NI.  That could also be 100% coincidence.

 

The arrows in the chart are relative direction of movement of the Aus plate over the subducting Pacific plate.  If this is representative of longer term movement (ie - it's been going on a long time), then something just has to give - sometime.


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  Reply # 1678326 27-Nov-2016 15:22
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I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.


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  Reply # 1678400 27-Nov-2016 16:57
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DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

It looks like the Wellington councils are having a competition to see how many can be condemned.  Pity about the people who work there who will most likely not have jobs by Xmas unless you're a public servant..





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Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1678422 27-Nov-2016 17:24
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DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe how a couple of engineers can decide these things so quickly without removing linings etc....

 

It will be good for the local economy to see a lot of new building action.


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  Reply # 1678495 27-Nov-2016 20:43
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Fred99:

 

I find this quite scary:

 

 

At the South, there have been major fault ruptures, perhaps a bit unusual (Chch and particularly the recent M7.8 event - unusual in that both involved multiple fault ruptures) as well as relatively major events to the North and to the West (Wairarapa).  But there's nothing moving much at all in the centre of that zone, right under the Wairarapa, and it's a sharp transition between the slow slip quake and the slow movement under the S Wairarapa.

 

But they haven't been monitoring these "slow quakes" for long, they probably know that what's going on is bringing forward the inevitable, but does "bringing forward" mean that it's likely to happen in the next year or two instead of the next 100 years, or happen in the next 100 or 500 years instead of the next 10,000 years?  I think the answer is that they don't know.  Even forgetting a megathrust event to the E and the 1855 event, there have been at least 3 >M7 events in that area, 1934, and 1942 (x2).  The 1855 event was preceded by a M7.4- M7.7 event of the Awatere fault in 1849.  Plot 150 years of quakes, and there was a tendency for major events to happen in the SI, then be followed by major events in the NI.  That could also be 100% coincidence.

 

The arrows in the chart are relative direction of movement of the Aus plate over the subducting Pacific plate.  If this is representative of longer term movement (ie - it's been going on a long time), then something just has to give - sometime.

 

 

The key is they don't know. What NZ has experienced,  ChCh and Seddon and now Waiau, is less than a blink of an eye in tectonics and EQ. All this may well be a one in 10,000 year occurrence. Alpine Fault is every 300 years on average, but they just don't know. We have landed on the moon, and Mars, and sent explorers to comets, asteroids, Jupiter, Pluto and beyond, but we know less about EQ and the depths of our oceans


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  Reply # 1678533 27-Nov-2016 21:52
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Pumpedd:

 

DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

 I find it hard to believe how a couple of engineers can decide these things so quickly without removing linings etc....

 

It will be good for the local economy to see a lot of new building action.

 

 

I suspect if you think of it like car insurance, there's a point at which it's cheaper just to start from scratch than to try to fix something structurally damaged.

 

Be nice if the earth didn't try to add its own punctuation while I'm typing though.  :-/





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  Reply # 1678560 27-Nov-2016 22:39
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Pumpedd:

 

DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe how a couple of engineers can decide these things so quickly without removing linings etc....

 

It will be good for the local economy to see a lot of new building action.

 

 

One aspect that has always concerned me is the high rise buildings sheeted in glass that is likely to cause more injuries to people in the street than the quake itself.

 

Of course you need windows, but somehow cladding buildings in lethal weapons seems unwise...






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  Reply # 1678569 27-Nov-2016 23:16
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DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

 

 

I visited one of the buildings that is due for demo about a month before these earthquakes, and I noticed cracks in the beams, near the column joint. I presume it was superficial and was from the 2013 quakes, and that it had all been previously checked.  I suspect that in some cases it is more economical to pull down than to repair, except those that have to come down urgently due to safety risks.


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  Reply # 1678577 28-Nov-2016 00:08
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I assume the Insurance Companies would want substantive proof before they paid out.


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  Reply # 1678578 28-Nov-2016 00:11
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Geektastic:

 

Pumpedd:

 

DarthKermit:

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why all these buildings in Wellington have to be demolished. It would be good to see some pictures of the actual damage and what was so bad about it.

 

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe how a couple of engineers can decide these things so quickly without removing linings etc....

 

It will be good for the local economy to see a lot of new building action.

 

 

One aspect that has always concerned me is the high rise buildings sheeted in glass that is likely to cause more injuries to people in the street than the quake itself.

 

Of course you need windows, but somehow cladding buildings in lethal weapons seems unwise...

 

 

 

 

That is why some have podiums, and others have veranda's. Although I have seen some glass verandas on TV, and in the EQs some shattered, after possibly being hit by old plastered parts of these old buildings falling on them. 


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