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BarTender
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  #1671060 15-Nov-2016 07:09
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TimA:

So i got a few trucks around the place with time stamps and a bit of data of these events, Or in this case possibly earthquakes.


Map it or make an animated gif. :)




and


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tdgeek
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  #1671061 15-Nov-2016 07:11
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joker97:

 

clinty: Both progressive and foodstuffs have large distribution centres in Chch, we have three big seaport - Lyttleton, Timaru and Dunedin and the NZTA has now opened the inland Picton -> ChCh route, so there may be some small delays but it shouldn't be a problem

Clint

 

Ok good to know. The food distribution centres get their freight from road rail or sea? AFAIK rail is pretty much buggered for ?ever. (just by looking at how long things take to happen in NZ - a good number of suburbs in Chch are still relying on portaloos I was told - that's since the 2009 quake - is that right?

 

 

2010. I don't think so now re portaloos. Certainly not suburbs, i.e. complete suburbs. There were and maybe still are some holdouts in the red zone. @Fred99 is also in ChCh, he may know more


tdgeek
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  #1671062 15-Nov-2016 07:13
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clinty: Both progressive and foodstuffs have large distribution centres in Chch, we have three big seaport - Lyttleton, Timaru and Dunedin and the NZTA has now opened the inland Picton -> ChCh route, so there may be some small delays but it shouldn't be a problem

Clint

 

Yes, very small delays. Extra 3 hours, but assuming the supermarkets are topping up existing stock, we wont see any difference as consumers. This week, possibly we may see some items not in stock though.




MikeB4
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  #1671063 15-Nov-2016 07:18
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Fred99:

It does worry me a bit that this sequence and the "Seddon quakes" of 2013 caused the issues they have in the Wgtn CBD.  Not that the damage may have been bad - I don't know - but bits of building facade/cladding falling, issues with windows/awnings etc shouldn't be happening when shaking is at the level experienced, in the CBD of a city which is dead certain to be hit much harder by something much closer.



The shaking n the two large Seddon quakes was strong, the shaking in this quake was very strong and lasted over a minute. It is testament to the evil of preparedness in the capital that the damage was not extensive.

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  #1671066 15-Nov-2016 07:45
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Timing is everything and we were very lucky. The building my son works in had one floor pancake onto another, I shudder to think what that would have meant if it were during a working day.

tdgeek
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  #1671068 15-Nov-2016 07:51
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I see the intensity has backed off a lot, scrolling through Geonet. But the frequency is very high. IIRC, in ChCh, they were every 15 to 20 minutes after a couple of days, but up there, its every few minutes still. Are they jolts, shaking for a few seconds, or rolling, does anyone know?


freitasm
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  #1671072 15-Nov-2016 08:09
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Fred99

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  #1671074 15-Nov-2016 08:19
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MikeB4:
Fred99:

 

It does worry me a bit that this sequence and the "Seddon quakes" of 2013 caused the issues they have in the Wgtn CBD.  Not that the damage may have been bad - I don't know - but bits of building facade/cladding falling, issues with windows/awnings etc shouldn't be happening when shaking is at the level experienced, in the CBD of a city which is dead certain to be hit much harder by something much closer.

 



The shaking n the two large Seddon quakes was strong, the shaking in this quake was very strong and lasted over a minute. It is testament to the evil of preparedness in the capital that the damage was not extensive.

 

MikeB4: Timing is everything and we were very lucky. The building my son works in had one floor pancake onto another, I shudder to think what that would have meant if it were during a working day.

 

I was questioning whether the level of preparedness was as good as some may be thinking - because those quakes actually haven't subjected Wgtn to a very strong level of shaking.  Bits and pieces of facades etc shouldn't be dropping off buildings and falling in the street, and there shouldn't be structural damage as reported here.

 

After the September 2010 M7 quake which hit Chch CBD with an instrument recorded level of shaking 3x as severe as Wgtn has had, there was, seen retrospectively, an epidemic of premature congratulations.  Some old buildings got trashed but Christchurch was, for a short period, heralded as a shining example of how modern building codes saved lives.  The level of shaking on Feb 22 2011 was about 6x greater than Wgtn has had.  Chch was haplessly unprepared - it always was.

 

Please believe me that I'm not trying to make a competition here "our one was bigger than yours". 

 

The nearest strong motion detector to the epicentre of the quake was about 25km away, a similar distance as the Chch CBD was from the September 2010 quake,  Similar peak ground acceleration was recorded at that distance, IIRC about 80%g in the Chch CBD in 2010, about 120%g was recorded in North Canterbury yesterday morning. As I understand it, peak ground acceleration recorded in Wellington yesterday was 25%g.  There shouldn't be any damage at all to commercial / public buildings - but there has been now - several times.

 

It's remarkable that floors pancaked in a (presumably commercial?) building. It flies in the face of reason if "experts" are claiming that Wgtn is "prepared" in terms of building codes, inspections, and strengthening work.


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  #1671077 15-Nov-2016 08:27
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I question and have done so for a while the decision to build office blocks on the water front. That Stats building is not far from the damaged again BNZ building and close to the Stadium and ferry terminals.
This land is reclaim and I don't think it is suitable for higher buildings. They did not prepare it in the way the land TePapa was built on which is also reclaim.

The Centre Port area sustained a lot of damage n the last Seddon jolt and again this time.

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  #1671081 15-Nov-2016 08:36
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Fred99:

 

 

 

After the September 2010 M7 quake which hit Chch CBD with an instrument recorded level of shaking 3x as severe as Wgtn has had, there was, seen retrospectively, an epidemic of premature congratulations.  Some old buildings got trashed but Christchurch was, for a short period, heralded as a shining example of how modern building codes saved lives.  The level of shaking on Feb 22 2011 was about 6x greater than Wgtn has had.  Chch was haplessly unprepared - it always was.

 

The nearest strong motion detector to the epicentre of the quake was about 25km away, a similar distance as the Chch CBD was from the September 2010 quake,  Similar peak ground acceleration was recorded at that distance, IIRC about 80%g in the Chch CBD in 2010, about 120%g was recorded in North Canterbury yesterday morning. As I understand it, peak ground acceleration recorded in Wellington yesterday was 25%g.  There shouldn't be any damage at all to commercial / public buildings - but there has been now - several times.

 

 

 

 

I'd disagree

 

PGC failed, dunno why. CTV failed, bad building practices. Many old and rubbish brick and double brick buildings failed east of Colombo St, as in High St, and other dire parts on that area. Those old, cruddy brick buildings should not have been there, EQ or no EQ. Of the rest, I feel ChCh held up very well. Ground effect in Feb 2010 was 220%g due to reflection of the volcanic Port Hills.

 

 

 

Facade wise, I agree, Welly should have sorted those after Chch. ChCh should have sorted those after a 1996 investigative news video was released, but that was bah humbugged.  EDIT, and it was on the money. Its on Youtube somewhere


Fred99

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  #1671082 15-Nov-2016 08:39
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tdgeek:

 

joker97:

 

clinty: Both progressive and foodstuffs have large distribution centres in Chch, we have three big seaport - Lyttleton, Timaru and Dunedin and the NZTA has now opened the inland Picton -> ChCh route, so there may be some small delays but it shouldn't be a problem

Clint

 

Ok good to know. The food distribution centres get their freight from road rail or sea? AFAIK rail is pretty much buggered for ?ever. (just by looking at how long things take to happen in NZ - a good number of suburbs in Chch are still relying on portaloos I was told - that's since the 2009 quake - is that right?

 

 

2010. I don't think so now re portaloos. Certainly not suburbs, i.e. complete suburbs. There were and maybe still are some holdouts in the red zone. @Fred99 is also in ChCh, he may know more

 

 

Lewis Pass is now reopened, so there's a road route between Picton or Nelson and Chch one day after the quake.  Good work.

 

I heard on National radio news that the rail line might be opened in weeks.  Looking at the photos, it seems inconceivable that they could shift all that rock, but perhaps the worst of those photos are where rail is in tunnels, which if they're intact, then the rest can be cleared.  But the road...  is a mess.

 

Everything went remarkably well under the circumstances when Chch got wiped out, the supermarkets reopened quickly, there weren't starving people or disease from sanitation problems etc.  It was extremely unpleasant, but in the immediate aftermath I don't think much more could have been done than was done.

 

A while ago there were still a few portaloos around not even red-zone, but what was yellow now TC3, where they've had to install equipment to pump sewage from homes on land which has slumped, uphill to sewage mains.  I haven't seen that for a while, perhaps the work is complete.  Plenty of portaloos dotted around where there are repairs/rebuilds going on, for workers etc - they're usually behind fencing, but sometimes on the footpath or berm.


Fred99

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  #1671108 15-Nov-2016 09:09
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

After the September 2010 M7 quake which hit Chch CBD with an instrument recorded level of shaking 3x as severe as Wgtn has had, there was, seen retrospectively, an epidemic of premature congratulations.  Some old buildings got trashed but Christchurch was, for a short period, heralded as a shining example of how modern building codes saved lives.  The level of shaking on Feb 22 2011 was about 6x greater than Wgtn has had.  Chch was haplessly unprepared - it always was.

 

The nearest strong motion detector to the epicentre of the quake was about 25km away, a similar distance as the Chch CBD was from the September 2010 quake,  Similar peak ground acceleration was recorded at that distance, IIRC about 80%g in the Chch CBD in 2010, about 120%g was recorded in North Canterbury yesterday morning. As I understand it, peak ground acceleration recorded in Wellington yesterday was 25%g.  There shouldn't be any damage at all to commercial / public buildings - but there has been now - several times.

 

 

 

 

I'd disagree

 

PGC failed, dunno why. CTV failed, bad building practices. Many old and rubbish brick and double brick buildings failed east of Colombo St, as in High St, and other dire parts on that area. Those old, cruddy brick buildings should not have been there, EQ or no EQ. Of the rest, I feel ChCh held up very well. Ground effect in Feb 2010 was 220%g due to reflection of the volcanic Port Hills.

 

Facade wise, I agree, Welly should have sorted those after Chch. ChCh should have sorted those after a 1996 investigative news video was released, but that was bah humbugged.  EDIT, and it was on the money. Its on Youtube somewhere

 

 

 

 

PGC and CTV failed because of design and/or building practices, but that was supposed to be a wakeup call in a couple of ways:

 

To go back and look at all buildings - not just those of similar era/design - and assess or re-assess them properly, not just in Chch.
The 220%g reading wasn't in the CBD, there it was about 120% - so about the same as 25km from the epicentre of the quake last night.  It's very much on the cards that a quake with serious (for structures) shaking will hit Wgtn, yet last night with relatively minor shaking in terms of %g pga, there was structural damage.  If the checks had been adequate, there wouldn't have been.

 

So it's not just facades - there are serious issues in Wgtn.


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  #1671121 15-Nov-2016 09:30
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Fred99:

 

 

 

The 220%g reading wasn't in the CBD, there it was about 120% - so about the same as 25km from the epicentre of the quake last night.  It's very much on the cards that a quake with serious (for structures) shaking will hit Wgtn, yet last night with relatively minor shaking in terms of %g pga, there was structural damage.  If the checks had been adequate, there wouldn't have been.

 

 

 

 

ChCh CBD ok, not 220% but over 180%, Heathcote Valley was 220%

 

Source Wiki

 

 

 

The intensity felt in Christchurch was MM VIII.[91] The peak ground acceleration (PGA) in central Christchurch exceeded 1.8g (i.e. 1.8 times the acceleration of gravity),[92] with the highest recording 2.2g, at Heathcote Valley Primary School,[3] a shaking intensity equivalent to MM X+.[93] This is the highest PGA ever recorded in New Zealand; the highest reading during the September 2010 event was 1.26g, recorded near Darfield.[92] The PGA is also one of the greatest-ever ground accelerations recorded in the world,[94] and was unusually high for a 6.3 quake.[95] and the highest in a vertical direction.[96] The central business district (CBD) experienced PGAs in the range of 0.574 and 0.802 g.[97] In contrast, the 7.0 Mw 2010 Haiti earthquake had an estimated PGA of 0.5g.[94] The acceleration occurred mainly in a vertical direction,[85] with eyewitness accounts of people being tossed into the air.[94] The upwards (positive acceleration) was greater than the downwards, which had a maximum recording of 0.9g; the maximum recorded horizontal acceleration was 1.7g[96] The force of the earthquake was "statistically unlikely" to occur more than once in 1000 years, according to one seismic engineer, with a PGA greater than many modern buildings were designed to withstand.[98] Although the rupture was subsurface, satellite images indicated that the net displacement of the land south of the fault was 50 cm westwards and upwards; the land movement would have been greater during the earthquake.[99] Land movement was varied around the area horizontally—in both east and west directions—and vertically; the Port Hills were raised by 40 cm.[100]

 

 


Fred99

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  #1671122 15-Nov-2016 09:33
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MikeB4: I question and have done so for a while the decision to build office blocks on the water front. That Stats building is not far from the damaged again BNZ building and close to the Stadium and ferry terminals.
This land is reclaim and I don't think it is suitable for higher buildings. They did not prepare it in the way the land TePapa was built on which is also reclaim.

The Centre Port area sustained a lot of damage n the last Seddon jolt and again this time.

 

 

 

I trust the experts will be looking very hard at those areas and the susceptibility to liquefaction, and will identify risks.  What's done about it from there, who knows?

 

No surprise I'm very very biased against the decision that's been made to appoint Ian Simpson to head GNS.  He's shown himself to be very willing to twist facts and "spin" things. In my opinion, he's acted as a sycophantic toad spinning PR to suit the EQ Minister's agenda.  This all seems very negative I know, but when you're having first-hand experience of the abject incompetence of an organisation, yet are being told time and time again that what they are doing is "satisfactory" or even "excellent" it does have an effect on perception.  Especially so when many in the rest of the country seem to have been convinced that it wasn't as bad as people like me are claiming, or excuse incompetence using terms like "under the circumstances".  The circumstances were of course, exactly what should have been expected - that's why the organisation was set up in the first place. We don't allow planes to collide mid-flight, then turn around and say that "under the circumstances of there being so many planes in the sky, air traffic control are doing a great job".

 

 

 

 


DarthKermit
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  #1671123 15-Nov-2016 09:33
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My god, there is an incredible amount of rubble to be shifted. I wonder where they'll find places to put it all?

 

John Key said that he saw from his helicopter trip slips as large as the one that closed the Manawatu Gorge for a year, times six or seven.


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