Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
14225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1691050 16-Dec-2016 12:51
Send private message

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

I am certain I did not refer to behaviour being passed on.

 

 

You did actually:

 

MikeB4: My Son is a Psychologist so knows a bit about this. I was chatting with him during the week and his reaction is an absolute no. The damage it causes is not a myth and he was saying that the damage is generational. In other words given to off spring, So it is not an individuals decisions.

 

 

That does not say behavioural but some of the conditions resulting will affect behaviour





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


8719 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1691057 16-Dec-2016 13:00
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

I am certain I did not refer to behaviour being passed on.

 

 

You did actually:

 

MikeB4: My Son is a Psychologist so knows a bit about this. I was chatting with him during the week and his reaction is an absolute no. The damage it causes is not a myth and he was saying that the damage is generational. In other words given to off spring, So it is not an individuals decisions.

 

 

That does not say behavioural but some of the conditions resulting will affect behaviour

 

 

 

 

Coffee affects my behaviour. I have no idea if that could be intergenerational.  I suspect that it actually could be, diet could be, and that makes extremely good sense from an evolutionary adaptation POV.  Same with other environmental factors in early childhood or during gestation, "turning on" genes that affect behaviour.  


 
 
 
 


13320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691060 16-Dec-2016 13:06
3 people support this post
Send private message

Being an alcoholic has intergenerational effects. Society has decided alcohol is fine. Until the early 20th century, cannabis was also fine.






8719 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1691067 16-Dec-2016 13:19
2 people support this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

Being an alcoholic has intergenerational effects. Society has decided alcohol is fine. Until the early 20th century, cannabis was also fine.

 

 

 

 

In the early 20th century Bayer was selling this as a "non-addictive morphine substitute and cough suppressant":

 

 

The world is full of examples of medical mistakes / unintended consequences.

 

Despite examples like above, I believe that the "war on drugs" is one of the biggest ones.


14225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1691077 16-Dec-2016 13:30
Send private message

Yes the current way of dealing with drugs has not been a complete success that does not mean you open the flood gates and legalised it.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


13320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691091 16-Dec-2016 14:07
3 people support this post
Send private message

MikeB4: Yes the current way of dealing with drugs has not been a complete success that does not mean you open the flood gates and legalised it.

 

 

 

Not sure that legalising weed - which is already happening in the most anti-drugs country I can think of, the USA - constitutes opening the floodgates. More a rational approach to the issue rather than a puritan, emotional one.

 

 

 

I suspect that when it finally happens, it will be like so many other similar societal changes - a year or two later, everyone will be wondering what the fuss was about.






Lock him up!
10679 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691095 16-Dec-2016 14:17
2 people support this post
Send private message

MikeB4: Yes the current way of dealing with drugs has not been a complete success that does not mean you open the flood gates and legalised it.

 

I don't want to open the floodgates. Instead, I would like to see them cautiously nudged a little, a bit at a time, with careful study of the result, while also taking account of overseas experiences. But in order to do that, there first has to be a mentality shift on the part of authorities. 

 

The experience with legal highs was a disaster because they were initially allowed with no controls, and because marijuana wasn't treated the same. A result was that a lot of foolish young people who otherwise might have chosen pot went instead for the much worse chemical 'legal' alternatives, with predictable results. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


13320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691104 16-Dec-2016 14:39
4 people support this post
Send private message

Here's an example from today's Herald of just how much money is wasted on cannabis control:

 

"The operation involved 45 Counties Manukau officers together with staff from the police's national organised crime group.

 

More than 500 cannabis plants were seized on the day and have since been destroyed."

 

 

 

If you say that the gross cost of running a Police officer (training, equipment, office space, vehicle costs and so forth as well as salary etc) is $1000 a day then every day they worked on that job cost $45,000 to the tax payer.

 

Let's assume they worked 10 days on the job so $450,000.

 

That means that each destroyed plant cost the tax payer $900 to achieve.

 

Alternatively we could have taxed the retail value of that weed at say 15% duty plus 15% GST and the taxpayer could have made money.

 

The internet tells me that  150g per plant is possible, so 200 times 150 is 30,000g. Further the internet tells me that weed costs about $50 per 3g.

 

This gives us a total gross of $500,000 taxed at 30% gives the taxpayer $150,000 income.

 

 

 

So, we paid out $450,000 in one instance and could have received $150,000 in the other....and used the police resource for other things.

 

 

 

Of course the figures are pretty ballpark but the present course of action just looks ineffective and expensive to boot. The cannabis supply in NZ will not even notice the loss of the 200 plants in this raid, so really not much was achieved other than the enforcement of a law almost for the sake of it.






1695 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1691128 16-Dec-2016 15:20
Send private message

If there was a referendum I'm not sure if I would vote for legalisation but I would for decriminalisation at least.

I worry primarily about youngsters as there is some proof marijuana increases the chance of schizophrenia in youths and long term use is possibly addictive and also ruins your liver (and if you are smoking it of course your lungs). Yes I know the damage alcohol and cigarettes do, I am not a big fan of those either.

I think education like with smoking and alcohol is a better option. The Life Trust Education Trust van has a pretty decent drug education programme for Year 7-8 students but it needs to be started earlier and reinforced more I think.

8719 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1691137 16-Dec-2016 15:41
2 people support this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

 

 

Of course the figures are pretty ballpark but the present course of action just looks ineffective and expensive to boot. The cannabis supply in NZ will not even notice the loss of the 200 plants in this raid, so really not much was achieved other than the enforcement of a law almost for the sake of it.

 

 

 

 

There's another side to that too, particularly with harder drugs, where dependant users will get involved in criminal behaviour to get money to pay the black-market price for the drugs they need.  That might be burglarising your house to steal your Macbook and grandmother's jewellery, it might be holding up a convenience store, stealing from an employer.  we're all paying for it through increased insurance costs, increased need for policing (which based on performance in apprehending thieves - is vastly inadequate).  It may mean not feeding or looking after their children properly - the long term consequences of that are horrific.  It probably means that when you do need a policeman, there isn't one available as they're under-resourced due in part to putting so much effort into the "war on drugs".

 

Then of course all of that money ends up in the hands of criminals, enjoying the massive profits, living the high life at our expense.  Although convictions against corrupt police being involved with gangsters in this trade in NZ are few, overseas experience suggests that's probably underestimated.

 

I think there's a belief that seizures probably account for about 20% of total trade, that including seizures where there's nobody apprehended.  Of course it's a guess - they can't really know.  It will be $billions.  The aussies did some tests analysing levels of metabolites from methamphetamine in municipal sewerage, finding that $2 billion worth of methamphetamine alone was used each year in Perth, that there had been a 500% increase in meth use in Queensland between 2009 and 2016.  Why don't we do this in NZ?  I'm confident the results would be shocking - and an indictment on the abject inadequacy of the policies we're using in "the war".

 

The focus on war on drugs quite rightly demonised production/distribution.  But it never really addressed the need to control demand and "cut the water off" by taking the profits out of the business.

 

Even if they legalised (as opposed to decriminalised) the whole business, and government stepped in and supplied and taxed drugs supplied to users, undercutting black markets, but doing nothing else to help/support users we'd all be much better off.  

 

 


14225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1691204 16-Dec-2016 19:11
One person supports this post
Send private message

One thing I should say. I am not against medicinal cannabis if it is tested and treated and controlled the same way as any other medication.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


13320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691319 16-Dec-2016 23:48
One person supports this post
Send private message

Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

Of course the figures are pretty ballpark but the present course of action just looks ineffective and expensive to boot. The cannabis supply in NZ will not even notice the loss of the 200 plants in this raid, so really not much was achieved other than the enforcement of a law almost for the sake of it.

 

 

 

 

There's another side to that too, particularly with harder drugs, where dependant users will get involved in criminal behaviour to get money to pay the black-market price for the drugs they need.  That might be burglarising your house to steal your Macbook and grandmother's jewellery, it might be holding up a convenience store, stealing from an employer.  we're all paying for it through increased insurance costs, increased need for policing (which based on performance in apprehending thieves - is vastly inadequate).  It may mean not feeding or looking after their children properly - the long term consequences of that are horrific.  It probably means that when you do need a policeman, there isn't one available as they're under-resourced due in part to putting so much effort into the "war on drugs".

 

Then of course all of that money ends up in the hands of criminals, enjoying the massive profits, living the high life at our expense.  Although convictions against corrupt police being involved with gangsters in this trade in NZ are few, overseas experience suggests that's probably underestimated.

 

I think there's a belief that seizures probably account for about 20% of total trade, that including seizures where there's nobody apprehended.  Of course it's a guess - they can't really know.  It will be $billions.  The aussies did some tests analysing levels of metabolites from methamphetamine in municipal sewerage, finding that $2 billion worth of methamphetamine alone was used each year in Perth, that there had been a 500% increase in meth use in Queensland between 2009 and 2016.  Why don't we do this in NZ?  I'm confident the results would be shocking - and an indictment on the abject inadequacy of the policies we're using in "the war".

 

The focus on war on drugs quite rightly demonised production/distribution.  But it never really addressed the need to control demand and "cut the water off" by taking the profits out of the business.

 

Even if they legalised (as opposed to decriminalised) the whole business, and government stepped in and supplied and taxed drugs supplied to users, undercutting black markets, but doing nothing else to help/support users we'd all be much better off.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes indeed. Also, if weed is legal, you won't need to come into contact with the crims who might try and push more damaging drugs as a money spinner. If you can buy it in the Off Licence with a box of beers on the way home on Friday after work, tinny houses will cease to be relevant to most users.






4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1691491 17-Dec-2016 18:05
Send private message

Hammerer:

 

 That's why I wouldn't rank the issue of legalising marijuana use in the top 100 pressing issues although I do think that the negative impact of marijuana use is in the top 100 pressing issues. In particular, the negative impact on children and young people is a very real concern for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It IS a pressing issue... How many people are in jail because of it? How many families broken up?

 

What about the real negative impact on children & young people when their parents get locked up because they've "enjoyed" the "evil" weed and been caught? Normally low income families that can't afford a good lawyer.

 

Considering the prevalence of cannabis AND alcohol, and their drain on society, it's a MAJOR ISSUE!

 

And before you say "well, they shouldn't do illegal drugs then" you have to realise a good bottle of wine costs more than a "tinny" and alcohol probably breaks up more families per year (if you take "jail for illegal use of cannabis" out of the equation).

 

Alcohol causes waaay more issues, but it's legal.

 

 

 

I'm off to have a beer (I haven't smoked weed since I was 21).


13320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1691605 17-Dec-2016 23:34
One person supports this post
Send private message

blakamin:

 

Hammerer:

 

 That's why I wouldn't rank the issue of legalising marijuana use in the top 100 pressing issues although I do think that the negative impact of marijuana use is in the top 100 pressing issues. In particular, the negative impact on children and young people is a very real concern for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It IS a pressing issue... How many people are in jail because of it? How many families broken up?

 

What about the real negative impact on children & young people when their parents get locked up because they've "enjoyed" the "evil" weed and been caught? Normally low income families that can't afford a good lawyer.

 

Considering the prevalence of cannabis AND alcohol, and their drain on society, it's a MAJOR ISSUE!

 

And before you say "well, they shouldn't do illegal drugs then" you have to realise a good bottle of wine costs more than a "tinny" and alcohol probably breaks up more families per year (if you take "jail for illegal use of cannabis" out of the equation).

 

Alcohol causes waaay more issues, but it's legal.

 

 

 

I'm off to have a beer (I haven't smoked weed since I was 21).

 

 

 

 

You might have been 21 just last weekend...! wink






4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1691744 18-Dec-2016 13:30
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

 

 

You might have been 21 just last weekend...! wink

 

 

 

 

I wish!!! That was over half a lifetime away!


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft New Zealand Partner Awards results
Posted 18-Oct-2019 10:18


Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.