Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
929 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 183
Inactive user


  # 1707321 22-Jan-2017 10:45
Send private message

Dratsab:

 

tdgeek: But democracy is an election by the people, different countries may have differing beliefs, but that is their culture, its not a democratic thing. 

 

This view is extremely simplistic and this simplicity makes the view incorrect. You need to expand things out to come to a more accurate view, like Handle9 has done.

 

Handle9: To have an effective democracy you need to have more than just a regular vote. To effectively inform the electorate you need a free Press. You need to have free speech to allow dissent. You can't have a secret police who suppresses all dissidents.

If all you is a regular vote you just have an autocracy masquerading as a democracy. A true democracy allows other candidates to put forward their point of view. An autocracy doesn't.

 

And you also have to have free voting with booths that aren't closely monitored by FSB agents.

 

Those who think Russia is a democracy, rather than an autocracy need to read up a little. Here's a partial list of suspicious deaths under Putin - read through the links as well. Here's an article about Russia's human rights crackdown, it 2 years old but still very relevant and, again, has some interesting links - especially in relation to the "blogger law". There are literally hundreds of thousands more informative links.

 

As for populism: when you control the state, when you control the media, when you control voting, when you [to a large degree] control dissention* through extreme violence - it becomes very easy to become 'wildly popular'.

 

EDIT: *I'm including views/speech/writing from opposition political parties in the term 'dissention'.

 

 

 

 

By that notion the USA has not been a democracy for very long if at all considering all the information that has come to light about the CIA influencing the media and elections. 

 

Also if we are going to jump into conspiracy theory's lets analyse this one (PDF file) 


13901 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6648

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1707323 22-Jan-2017 10:48
Send private message

Stan: Also if we are going to jump into conspiracy theory's lets analyse this one  

 



Please don't make links to auto downloads





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


2734 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1320

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1707325 22-Jan-2017 10:54
3 people support this post
Send private message

BREAKING NEWS

 

Apology for interrupting thread, but news is just coming through of an car explosion in Wellington CBD. Early reports are that the four occupants, a male and female adults and two children, were killed instantly in the explosion. Several pedestrians, number unknown, have also reportedly been critically injured. Reporters on the scene say that car is believed to be owned by a local Wellingtonian, well-known for his outspoken views on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

 

The above is obviously fiction, but imagine how outraged New Zealander's would be if a foreign country started routinely executing our citizens on our streets at will. Imagine how enraged any western country would be, particularly the US, if this were to become common place in their backyard.

 

Yet, this is what the US currently does routinely around the world in other sovereign countries. The US military routinely executes men, woman and children, from afar, without trial, or any requirement whatsoever to publicly provide any justification for the killing.

 

And a lot of us don't even give this practice of routine murder a thought. Many of us even endorse it.

 

The title of this thread is good riddance to Obama and his drones. Sadly, having just listened to President Trump this morning, it sounds like this practice only just begun.


15897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3129

Trusted

  # 1707335 22-Jan-2017 11:02
One person supports this post
Send private message

Majority vote, free Press, free speech. Thats a democracy, ok. Muldoon choose to ignore free press by expelling Tom Scott. Trump told Fox News he will choose the reporters for his coverage. That is two countries who do not act as a democracy. Minority rights, equality, that probably covers many of the other democracies.

Majority vote is simplistic, yes. As long as voting is not corrupt that's a fair democracy. All of the other freedoms that apparently are required also, do not exist in reality. While the freedom and equality is clearly very present in many parts of society, the opposite is very common. If there was a communist or socialist or autocratic state that actually did promote equality that would probably be a better place for the masses.

Anyhoo, I'm off to paint


2734 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1320

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1707341 22-Jan-2017 11:09
4 people support this post
Send private message

tdgeek: Majority vote, free Press, free speech. Thats a democracy, ok. Muldoon choose to ignore free press by expelling Tom Scott. Trump told Fox News he will choose the reporters for his coverage. That is two countries who do not act as a democracy. Minority rights, equality, that probably covers many of the other democracies.

Majority vote is simplistic, yes. As long as voting is not corrupt that's a fair democracy. All of the other freedoms that apparently are required also, do not exist in reality. While the freedom and equality is clearly very present in many parts of society, the opposite is very common. If there was a communist or socialist or autocratic state that actually did promote equality that would probably be a better place for the masses.

Anyhoo, I'm off to paint

 

yourself into a corner? (-;


929 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 183
Inactive user


  # 1707343 22-Jan-2017 11:12
Send private message

gzt:
Various mobile browsers including Chrome trigger a download for PDF.

 

 

 

There you go added PDF to the post just for you :)


15897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3129

Trusted

  # 1707390 22-Jan-2017 12:12
Send private message

dafman:

tdgeek: Majority vote, free Press, free speech. Thats a democracy, ok. Muldoon choose to ignore free press by expelling Tom Scott. Trump told Fox News he will choose the reporters for his coverage. That is two countries who do not act as a democracy. Minority rights, equality, that probably covers many of the other democracies.

Majority vote is simplistic, yes. As long as voting is not corrupt that's a fair democracy. All of the other freedoms that apparently are required also, do not exist in reality. While the freedom and equality is clearly very present in many parts of society, the opposite is very common. If there was a communist or socialist or autocratic state that actually did promote equality that would probably be a better place for the masses.

Anyhoo, I'm off to paint


yourself into a corner? (-;



Consider the freedoms and equality that exists. Two leaders as mentioned didn't have a bar of it. Preaching equality doesn't mean squat if democratic countries are rife with inequality

Fat bottom Trump
9921 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4778

Subscriber

  # 1707393 22-Jan-2017 12:19
Send private message

There seems to be a degree of incoherence creeping into this discussion.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


2081 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 883

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1707449 22-Jan-2017 14:37
One person supports this post
Send private message

tdgeek: Majority vote, free Press, free speech. Thats a democracy, ok. Muldoon choose to ignore free press by expelling Tom Scott. Trump told Fox News he will choose the reporters for his coverage. That is two countries who do not act as a democracy. Minority rights, equality, that probably covers many of the other democracies.

Majority vote is simplistic, yes. As long as voting is not corrupt that's a fair democracy. All of the other freedoms that apparently are required also, do not exist in reality. While the freedom and equality is clearly very present in many parts of society, the opposite is very common. If there was a communist or socialist or autocratic state that actually did promote equality that would probably be a better place for the masses.

Anyhoo, I'm off to paint

 

 

 

It would appear that you are trolling now. Comparing a journalist being excluded from a press pool to journalists being arrested and secret police controlling elections really is drawing a long bow.

 

The protests going on at the moment are a sign of a democracy working as opposed to what went on around the Sochi Olympics.


BDFL - Memuneh
63311 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 13846

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1707453 22-Jan-2017 14:56
Send private message

If you think this war mongering President will be "better" than Obama in your opinion when it comes to war strategy, think again:






15897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3129

Trusted

  # 1707479 22-Jan-2017 16:06
Send private message

Handle9:

tdgeek: Majority vote, free Press, free speech. Thats a democracy, ok. Muldoon choose to ignore free press by expelling Tom Scott. Trump told Fox News he will choose the reporters for his coverage. That is two countries who do not act as a democracy. Minority rights, equality, that probably covers many of the other democracies.

Majority vote is simplistic, yes. As long as voting is not corrupt that's a fair democracy. All of the other freedoms that apparently are required also, do not exist in reality. While the freedom and equality is clearly very present in many parts of society, the opposite is very common. If there was a communist or socialist or autocratic state that actually did promote equality that would probably be a better place for the masses.

Anyhoo, I'm off to paint


 


It would appear that you are trolling now. Comparing a journalist being excluded from a press pool to journalists being arrested and secret police controlling elections really is drawing a long bow.


The protests going on at the moment are a sign of a democracy working as opposed to what went on around the Sochi Olympics.



I wasn't comparing. I was stating that the freedom of the press is not carried out by democracy, gave two examples, who wee leaders not giving free press.

2748 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1326

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1707531 22-Jan-2017 17:17
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

There seems to be a degree of incoherence creeping into this discussion.

 

 

 

 

Creeping???

 

 


8192 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4490


  # 1707582 22-Jan-2017 19:08
2 people support this post
Send private message

frankv:

 

Rikkitic:

 

There seems to be a degree of incoherence creeping into this discussion.

 

 

Creeping???

 

 

Incoherence?  The POTUS is a straight talker,  Damned sure he is:

 

 

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."

 

 

 

 

 


Mad Scientist
20126 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2734

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1707600 22-Jan-2017 19:24
Send private message

Stan:

 

dejadeadnz:

 

Stan: one might perhaps take you a bit more seriously if you would actually post some substantive contribution, instead of doing a blatant faux Socratic method by pretending to be making a genuine inquiry. Nothing that I have asserted requires me to conclusively establish the exact moment in time in which the western world as a whole became democratic. In fact, given the diversity of cultures, different levels of respect for human rights, and the rule of law, coming up with a precise, simple answer like that is impossible. This doesn't, however, prevent one from coming to a view that a country with the lovely characteristics of Russia might not make for a democracy, if you want to have a morally and practically relevant definition of democracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not think you understand my intentions (well how could you this is the internet) I am interested in the opinion you present despite your rather crass replies to my posts.

 

So as I understand it Russia = not a democracy due to its lower standard of LBGT rights and press freedom than say the USA?

 

 

As I understand it, when you put all your opposition and anyone who speaks negatively of you in jail, beaten, killed, bankrupted, and who knows what, then the voting is irrelevant because all other serious candidates are eliminated. [Mind you this exact thing happens in say Singapore, so no I don't see Singapore as a democracy]

 

Say you enter a masterchef style competition. Any dishes that look or tastes good is chucked into the bin, then you can buy something from the supermarket and you win.

 

I suppose you are the only one who can define what you see as democracy.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


1759 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 900


  # 1707616 22-Jan-2017 20:14
Send private message

freitasm: If you think this war mongering President will be "better" than Obama in your opinion when it comes to war strategy, think again:

 

 


 

 

 

Remember...trump knows more than the Generals!!!


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

HPE to acquire supercomputing leader Cray
Posted 20-May-2019 11:07


Techweek starting around NZ today
Posted 20-May-2019 09:52


Porirua City Council first to adopt new council software solution Datascape
Posted 15-May-2019 12:00


New survey provides insight into schools' technology challenges and plans
Posted 15-May-2019 09:30


Apple Music now available on Alexa devices in Australia and New Zealand
Posted 15-May-2019 09:11


Make a stand against cyberbullying this Pink Shirt Day
Posted 14-May-2019 20:23


Samsung first TV manufacturer to launch the Apple TV App and Airplay 2
Posted 14-May-2019 20:11


Vodafone New Zealand sold
Posted 14-May-2019 07:25


Kordia boosts cloud performance with locally-hosted Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 10:25


Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute in New Zealand opens up faster, more secure internet for Kiwi businesses
Posted 8-May-2019 09:39


Vocus Communications to deliver Microsoft Azure Cloud Solutions through Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 09:25


Independent NZ feature film #statusPending to premiere during WLG-X
Posted 6-May-2019 22:13


The ultimate dog photoshoot with Nokia 9 PureView #ForgottenDogsofInstagram
Posted 6-May-2019 09:41


Nokia 9 PureView available in New Zealand
Posted 6-May-2019 09:06


Motorola Solutions joins local partners to deliver advanced communications network in New Zealand
Posted 30-Apr-2019 21:50



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.