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# 208721 24-Feb-2017 19:25
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Hi GZ'rs.

 

 

 

Last week, I made 2 Internet Payments, both small amounts, to a mate who is with ANZ Bank. I am also with ANZ and the 1st payment for NZD68 (below) was good, I paid this 1st payment from my ANZ Bank to my mates ANZ Bank and all was well.

 

But, however the 2nd payment for $125 I paid from my BNZ Bank to his ANZ Bank & the payment was made wrongly, instead of his '4 digit Branch Code' the payment was made using my own ANZ Newmarket '4 digit Branch Code', duh.

 

Initially I thought rectifying this would be very easy, however after multiple calls, and multiple emails, and now visits in person to both ANZ & BNZ Banks, I am left with both saying it's impossible to rectify easily, and (see below) the solution I was offered, is not acceptable.

 

Anyway, I'm am a bit incredulous, that someone actually received this small payment, made in error, I am very surprised that ANZ wouldn't simply for me call the person who 'supposedly' received the $125 erroneously paid them, they're saying that someone at Newmarket ANZ where I bank with ANZ, has my friends same Account Number, frankly I do not believe this.

 

Does anyone know about this, help would be appreciated very much!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Mr Snotty
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  # 1725858 24-Feb-2017 19:32
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Heya - First off under full disclosure yes I work for a bank.

 

BNZ are correct. You're needing to either submit a direct credit recovery or hope that the account that you've submitted the money to is not active. Under the privacy act you're able to phone up ANZ to just confirm if the account you've sent the money to is an active account (they can't provide any other details due to the privacy act) which should give you an idea.

 

If you've paid to a non-active ANZ account the money will be reversed in normally 2-3 business days. If the money has gone into an active ANZ account then I am sorry to say it is really "tough luck" as ANZ or any other bank won't be able to get it back for you without a direct credit recovery (and this costs $100) - this goes for paying into any account with any bank.





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  # 1725860 24-Feb-2017 19:37
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I have always been surprised that NZ bank accounts don't have a checksum digit to prevent this kind of mistakes. What if you send a payment for car - say $25,000 to the wrong account? The money is gone, gone, bad luck? Sounds weird...





 
 
 
 


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  # 1725861 24-Feb-2017 19:38
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You might be a bit stuffed. My friend lost $600 to a fraudster when trying to buy a phone online. Banks wouldn't assist in any way, in the end she got it back over the coarse of a year as the police prosecuted the woman involved.

Think about it like this; if you sold something online and after a few days you ship the item and the buyer asks their bank to reverse the payment. If the bank did that then you'd have lost out on the item you already shipped. So you can see why the banks are keen not to get involved in disputes like this as it'd be very very time consuming.

I guess your only option would be to try the direct debit option they gave, or try speak to the police. I've seen many articles about banks mistakingly transferring thousands into accounts (not as an overdraft or credit facility, but an actual cash chunk) and then the receiver going to jail for spending it.

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  # 1725862 24-Feb-2017 19:38
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If you both are with ANZ. Get GoMoney. And use pay to mobile in future.

 

 

 

Issues be gone :) Not as easy to boob up a cell number when its a saved contact!


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  # 1725864 24-Feb-2017 19:42
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Back in the day you used to be able to dishonor payments however this made banks hate each-over (in a way). Lets say if person A sent $2000 to person B - the funds would show that day, person B could withdraw the funds however person A could still dishonor the payment putting person B into an unarranged overdraft. You can tell where I'm going with this in terms of fraudulent activity.

 

Sending funds in a way that they can't be reversed fixes this loophole and makes banks, and customers happier however does prevent the odd person doing an honest mistake from reversing funds back.





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  # 1725868 24-Feb-2017 19:49
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So there's no matching of account name to account number? Now I know.

 

Sounds real rough when make a mistake. If I was paying someone I know, I would pay them a $1 as test payment, save them as payee, and then pay the rest once they've confirmed they've got the $1


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  # 1725870 24-Feb-2017 19:50
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When entering bank account details I always triple-check the numbers - compare the numbers in both directions from source to destination and destination back again, then finally make another comparison to ensure what I've entered is correct. Chalk this up as a learning experience and hope the money bounces back.

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  # 1725873 24-Feb-2017 19:52
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freitasm:

 

I have always been surprised that NZ bank accounts don't have a checksum digit to prevent this kind of mistakes. What if you send a payment for car - say $25,000 to the wrong account? The money is gone, gone, bad luck? Sounds weird...

 

 

For this sort of transaction you should first send a small amount and save the payee details.  When the payee confirms he has received the small amount, you use the saved payee details to send the balance


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  # 1725874 24-Feb-2017 19:56
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This is why I hated it when ASB made you paste each part seperatly. Was so easy to cock it up and put a wrong digit in when copy and pasting the blocks of them.

 

This really is an issue that isn't the banks unfortunately. There is considerable time in them trying to sort these things out, so $75 or $100 for them to sort out your error isnt an unreasonable charge, its just a shame that its almost all the amount that you have paid.

 

The real issue comes when some idiot trademe seller sends you a wrong account number which is why I always double check the ones that do not use the automated payment instructions from trademe, which is the only time I have had a problem with things going to the wrong account that was not my mistake. It was the idiot seller who changed bank account and only bothered to change part of it in their payment instructions.





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  # 1725875 24-Feb-2017 19:58
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rugrat:

 

So there's no matching of account name to account number? Now I know.

 

Sounds real rough when make a mistake. If I was paying someone I know, I would pay them a $1 as test payment, save them as payee, and then pay the rest once they've confirmed they've got the $1

 

Not at all. The account name is more for your reference. The only thing banking systems do really is send the money to the account number.

 

So if I told somebody my account name was "Taylor Swift" the money would still arrive to me. On their statement they've paid "Taylor Swift" and on my statement I'll see the name of the person who sent the payment through.

 

freitasm:

 

I have always been surprised that NZ bank accounts don't have a checksum digit to prevent this kind of mistakes. What if you send a payment for car - say $25,000 to the wrong account? The money is gone, gone, bad luck? Sounds weird...

 

How about $300k for a house deposit in Auckland? Or $1.5mil to an investment account? They are the most terrifying transactions to put through for customers (and also quite terrifying for the customers themselves).







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  # 1725877 24-Feb-2017 20:01
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Thank you GZ'rs, appreciate the helpful informed comment.

 

However, we are sceptical, ANZ assure me its a genuine account, but tell me they will not telephone the account holder, that they will not do anything, and that to have them action anything I must pay 1st NZD75 to the Bank of New Zealand whom I made payment from.

 

Someone just txt'd me, to say, tomorrow, go into an ANZ and try deposit $10 into this account, at 06 ANZ 0193 Newmarket but using Marks account number 064xx54 thats supposedly swallowed the $125. The person who text'd me, says its very very very very unlikely that this account number, at my own ANZ 0193 Newmarket Branch, with my friend marks Account Number even exists. ANZ will not confirm the account exists, they act as though it's all hugely secret & I am not allowed such knowledge.

 

So tomorrow, I will start by trying in store at an ANZ to deposit $10 into the account, that has an account holder, they refuse to call / approach, in Newmarket ?!

 

It's wrong, simple, this situation, feels wrong, I am sceptical, imagine if it was $275k, and the person refused to allow a 'rightful refund' to me, wtf?

 

It could be a computer glitch, its my own Branch, after-all, ANZ Newmarket 0193

 

Whole thing = time wasting = kindergarten styles

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1725889 24-Feb-2017 20:18
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No ANZ can't call the account holder or give you any information about the account as per the privacy act. The only thing they, or any other bank can tell you is if the account is an open account. The only way you can get them to call is via a direct credit recovery as any other way is breaking law. It is indeed possible that 06-0193 does have an account (the remaining numbers) under another customer as branches can open up any account they so please under their own branch number.

 

Phone up ANZ on 0800 269 296 and ask if the account is active - that is the most you can possibly do without breaking law.





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  # 1725900 24-Feb-2017 20:31
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harlansmart:

 

It's wrong, simple, this situation, feels wrong, I am sceptical, imagine if it was $275k, and the person refused to allow a 'rightful refund' to me, wtf?

 

 

In that case if the person refused the refund you would be $275k out of pocket with pretty much no legal right to any recourse.

 

This whole situation has been made even worse by the move to "real time" banking with settlement before interchange. As banks settle continually throughout the day now you're even limited when it comes to cancelling a transaction even if you realise it's wrong pretty much straight away.

 

 

 

 


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  # 1725902 24-Feb-2017 20:34
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If the bank made the mistake, you can bet your left one, that the problem would be sorted as good as instantly... once they'd acknowledged it was their mistake of course.

My brother was recently telling me how hard it was to even find out his own account number in Canada. He said that for transfers, you logged in and got a number for the transfer, then gave it to the person paying you (or something like that). It seemed ridiculous when he told me, but now simple and unforgiving the NZ system is, I'm thinking it's not so bad.




Location: Dunedin

 

 


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  # 1725906 24-Feb-2017 20:42
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harlansmart:

 

However, we are sceptical, ANZ assure me its a genuine account, but tell me they will not telephone the account holder, that they will not do anything, and that to have them action anything I must pay 1st NZD75 to the Bank of New Zealand whom I made payment from.

 

 

The checksum algorithm to validate if the account number is a possible account is usually calculated when you create the payment. You can calculate it yourself. While it doesn't tell you if the account is in use, it would tell you if it cannot be a valid NZ bank account number.

 

The validation algorithm is included in this IRD document:

 

https://www.ird.govt.nz/resources/d/8/d8e49dce-1bda-4875-8acf-9ebf908c6e17/rwt-nrwt-spec-2014.pdf


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