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# 208837 1-Mar-2017 16:36
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I have always had trouble with inconsistent signatures. No matter how hard I try, I almost can't do the same signature twice. They also look like rubbish, like a 5 year wrote his name, not really nice like some people's calligraphy like signature.

Now this has never been an issue until now. I have applied for a job, at a new branch of a business I've worked at the last 5 years, however the new branch is insisting on an up to date MOJ criminal check, and have outsourced this checking to Australian company to take care of.

I kept getting all these spammy reminders that I hadn't submitted the documents when in fact I had, so I submitted them again and got told, sorry, your signature doesn't match your ID (NZDL) signature. So I printed 10 forms out, and on separate paper had a practice session of trying to get it as close to the NZDL signature as possible, then filled all 10 forms in, and submitted the best one.... and it still got rejected.

So the company is like, if you can't get the signature to match, then we can't MOJ check you, therefore can't offer you a job. The first thing that came to mind is to go get a new licence. But the time involved in doing that, the job won't be on offer.

So now I wonder, to avoid this ever happening again, is there anything legally dictating the minimum requirement of a signature, like could I just make my signature the letter x ?

Could I go to a doctor and get them to write a note that says I have trouble with the fine writing skill required to scrawl an accurate and repeatable signature, and would that carry any weight with MOJ for future signature checking? Surely some old people or people with various ailments like parkinsons etc, would struggle also so there must be allowances for this?

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  # 1728379 1-Mar-2017 16:49
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Quite frankly I would be questioning there actual ability to provide a secure service if they are fretting over a signature. Signatures are not secure. It would take me bugger all time in photoshop to take an item with your signature on it clean it up and submit.

 

Why not offer to take a photo of your self in the mirror with you holding your drivers licence in your hand. Far harder to fake(still not impossible but you have to be really good in photoshop to do so)

 

 





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  # 1728383 1-Mar-2017 16:54
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I took a photo of my signature so I can paste it into documents I fill in electronically. Not sure if it's valid but it's never been questioned. I do it in Photoshop so I doubt anyone could tell even if they wanted to.

 

Interesting question though.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1728384 1-Mar-2017 16:58
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If it's anything like my licence signature it doesn't quite match any paper one because the machine they make you sign on didn't pick up my chicken scratch writing properly - it's like trying to sign with a paint brush then comparing it later to a pen.


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# 1728398 1-Mar-2017 17:15
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So your company has outsourced an MOJ check to an offshore company... and they have decided to use a signature as proof of identity?... which they match to a drivers license that NZTA goes to great pains to point out is not proof of ID??? This just gets better and better.

 

Even banks, IRD, MOD, me, Immigration, anyone else in the world has moved beyond signatures for ID.

 

"It's OK sir don't worry if you have forgotten your PIN and your face has changed...as long as the signature matches you are good to go"

 

 





Matthew


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  # 1728405 1-Mar-2017 17:49
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The IT work that I do requires me to work for different organisations and goverment departments. I have a national security clearance, been through various vetting processes for banks and even MOJ's security clearance check annually.

The most grief I've got about my signature was when signing a hire purchase agreement because my signature didn't quite match the DL

The only issue I have with the security checks is usually the length of time they take to get processed.

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  # 1728412 1-Mar-2017 18:36
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Digital signatures are valid in New Zealand. You can take a scan of your signature and add to a Word document and print it, or simply save as a PDF and both will be valid. You can use either an electronic signature (a representation of you signature) or a digital certificate.

 

There are few exceptions to the rule but mostly related to government (and sales of land).

 





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  # 1728413 1-Mar-2017 18:38
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Signatures are never exactly the same twice and even for "normal" people change over time - they should be suspicious if it does match greatly, not if it doesn't. Shrug.

Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1728438 1-Mar-2017 18:49
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freitasm:

 

Digital signatures are valid in New Zealand. You can take a scan of your signature and add to a Word document and print it, or simply save as a PDF and both will be valid. You can use either an electronic signature (a representation of you signature) or a digital certificate.

 

There are few exceptions to the rule but mostly related to government (and sales of land).

 

 

Reading both of those, I take from them what I always thought, A scanned copy is not acceptable, a digital cert is. (section 24 says it must be able to be proved it came from only one person. and since anyone can copy and paste an image, it doesn't count)

 

 

 

Or have I read that incorrectly?

 

...... edit as in this bit at the end of the second article....

 

As discussed above, the requirements for authentication and verification outlined in the ETA leave the general form of electronic signatures somewhat lacking. Such electronic signatures provide no path to authenticate the signer or the document, or to guarantee that the information is unaltered in transit. Further, as security is easily compromised, electronic signatures open clients to a range of potential liabilities that are better avoided.

 

Accordingly, digital signatures provide the only appropriate form for signing electronically that both conforms to the requirements of the ETA and is likely to be accepted by the courts





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  # 1728439 1-Mar-2017 18:58
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I have never had this problem and my signatures all look similar but I have always had terrible, illegible handwriting. I don't suffer from palsy or anything like that, but for some reason I have almost no motor control when trying to write. I can only block print, and even then the pen goes everywhere and I also often transpose letters or create scribbles I don't intend. With much effort, I taught myself to scrawl a signature many years ago. It does not resemble my name even a little, but no-one has ever questioned it and my understanding is that your signature is whatever you sign with and it doesn't matter what you use as long as it remains consistent. 

 

Fortunately I learned to type at an early age. I would never even attempt to apply for a job that insisted on a handwritten letter. The company psychologist would take one look at mine and immediately conclude I was a deranged mass murderer aged about 4.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1728474 1-Mar-2017 19:02
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When I was younger I had a job that required I sign my name about 3000 time a day for a week... needless to say my signature degenerated into what is basically a sort of random  X with a squiggle on the end. It never recovered. It still looks different every time I sign it.





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  # 1728499 1-Mar-2017 20:14
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Funnily enough I had the same issue recently. The company I work for was taken over by another, so they redid all the security and police checks. I'd signed about six pages of stuff and a couple of weeks later it came back saying one signature didn't match the others. Now my licence is the typical of most, trying to get something that is close on that little digital pad holding a pen nowhere near naturally. 

 

I wound up tracing my signature from another page, I'd been practicing trying to do it like the one they wanted and couldn't. I sign my name 10-15 times a day as well and it's morphed into this flat rapid version of my licence version. 


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  # 1728523 1-Mar-2017 21:16
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My wife (who works in law but is not a lawyer) suggests getting a new drivers license, with a much simplified signature that you can reliably reproduce. Without this you may have problems going forward, for example with legal documents that require your signature be checked against photo ID.


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  # 1728526 1-Mar-2017 21:21
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Alternately you may be able to have someone else do a declaration of identity for you. This can sometimes be used if you don't have photo ID.


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  # 1728528 1-Mar-2017 21:28
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You can get that from your local courthouse. I have to do it every year for my overseas pension.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1728535 1-Mar-2017 21:35
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Personally, if someone was potentially dicking me round like this and intimating the security of my employment could be in jeopardy I'd be getting hard nosed and pointing out it's a well established that:
a. signatures vary from instance to instance and
b. signatures change over time

 

My point of view would be that they know exactly who I am and that I'd be more than happy to go to an Employment Court if need be. 

 

If they want to dispute it's your signature they should be providing an analysis from a suitably qualified document examiner, otherwise they just need to get on with the job they've been contracted to do.

 

Edit: Spelling and corrected formatting


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