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  # 1735320 12-Mar-2017 15:28
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Hold on Mike, arent you from the UK? (dont you get a UK pension)

 

Actually thats what taxes pay for Year in Year out. You are trying to say its equal, well give me back my student loan money, give the country back its borrowed debt, and dont make me retire at 75 (which it will be by 2037 not 67) and we will call it equal.

 

Its not an EARNT system which you are implying.


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  # 1735322 12-Mar-2017 15:33
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A lot of people forget that us poor old baby boomers have already had to postpone our retirement to pay for the pre baby boomer generation. When I started work the retirement age was 60.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1735327 12-Mar-2017 15:43
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TeaLeaf:

Hold on Mike, arent you from the UK? (dont you get a UK pension)


Actually thats what taxes pay for Year in Year out. You are trying to say its equal, well give me back my student loan money, give the country back its borrowed debt, and dont make me retire at 75 (which it will be by 2037 not 67) and we will call it equal.


Its not an EARNT system which you are implying.



No, I am a Kiwi born in Aotearoa.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1735330 12-Mar-2017 15:57
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MikeB4: 
No, I am a Kiwi born in Aotearoa.

 

Sorry about that, my friend is retiring but gets a UK pension and his 20 year younger wife as well for some weird reason.

 

Yes fair point about 60-65, but the reality is, is life worth living to work, a large chunk are dead by 70. 

 

Personally Im sure ill sustain an injury at age 60 and require medical assitance :-0




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  # 1735335 12-Mar-2017 16:19
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TeaLeaf:

 

MikeB4: 
No, I am a Kiwi born in Aotearoa.

 

Sorry about that, my friend is retiring but gets a UK pension and his 20 year younger wife as well for some weird reason.

 

Yes fair point about 60-65, but the reality is, is life worth living to work, a large chunk are dead by 70. 

 

Personally Im sure ill sustain an injury at age 60 and require medical assitance :-0

 

 

 

 

That may be because the UK has a more sophisticated pension market. It would be unusual for many to rely on the State pension.

 

Most employers offer some sort of company pension scheme, in addition to the compulsory payments into the UK State pension system. Many also used to offer what are known as 'Final Salary Schemes' where your pension is 50% of your salary on retirement, index linked until you die. Those, however, are very rare now as they cost so much to provide; most companies that did offer them closed them to new entrants at least 15 years ago now.

 

So, it may be that your friend is getting a company pension (or a private scheme he joined, which is also possible). If you claim NZ Super, you cannot also get the UK State pension (no matter that you may have contributed hugely to tax in both nations...!). Alternatively you can opt for the UK pension and forgo the NZ pension. That does not affect a private or company scheme you may have in addition.






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  # 1735357 12-Mar-2017 17:50
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It looks like this policy, if it does ever get through, is targeting those around 40 and younger. Those people are the same as people who were affected by fees being introduced on university education, and significant increase in house prices, which in some areas are now 10 times the average wage, which is the most unaffordable in the world. So many of those will still be paying off their mortgage at retirement, let along having the money saved to make up for the shortfall in incoming money. People who are 40ish are going to be the ones worst affected as they will have the least time to plan to find the extra $50k+ they would have got it it had been left at 65. It is funny how politicians, most of who are older than the cut off age and over 40, will be least affected. Putting younger generations in a worse position than generations before them,  with changes in policy like this, is not good. When it was changed in the 90's, from 60, up to 65, at least there was a good reason for it, and that was that the country was in some financial trouble and needed to cut the budget.

 

I think they really need to work out a way to reduce house prices significantly for genuine NZ home buyers. Other policies such as using kiwisaver, has only helped to increase prices, due to a lack of supply, and people paying up tot heir limit they could borrow.. They need to prevent overseas people buying our houses, and make them build new instead. They also need to have some form of government company to buy building materials cheaply,to bring in competition into the building sector.


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  # 1735362 12-Mar-2017 18:01
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If you claim NZ Super, you cannot also get the UK State pension (no matter that you may have contributed hugely to tax in both nations...!). Alternatively you can opt for the UK pension and forgo the NZ pension. That does not affect a private or company scheme you may have in addition.

 

 

I believe you can get both a UK pension and NZ Super. There's info on the NZ Super site. However the NZ Super amount is reduced by the amount of UK pension you get.

 

As the UK pension paid to anyone in NZ never changes (ie it is the same from day 1 until you die) NZ Super is a good way of topping it up and possibly keeping up with inflation.


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  # 1735363 12-Mar-2017 18:10
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SJB:

 

 

 

 

If you claim NZ Super, you cannot also get the UK State pension (no matter that you may have contributed hugely to tax in both nations...!). Alternatively you can opt for the UK pension and forgo the NZ pension. That does not affect a private or company scheme you may have in addition.

 

 

I believe you can get both a UK pension and NZ Super. There's info on the NZ Super site. However the NZ Super amount is reduced by the amount of UK pension you get.

 

As the UK pension paid to anyone in NZ never changes (ie it is the same from day 1 until you die) NZ Super is a good way of topping it up and possibly keeping up with inflation.

 

 

 

 

I believe when you apply for NZ super, you are required to apply for the UK one as well. Lets just say it is an absolute PITA to do, as you will know if you deal with any UK government dept or financial institution. A family member did, and I think they qualified for about $5 pounds a year of UK super as they only worked for a short time in the UK. But the paper work and hassle involved was madness, and imagine it cost far more to administer ,than was worth it.


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  # 1735375 12-Mar-2017 18:29
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networkn:

 

Should been happening much much faster. Labour are just opposing for the sake of it. Pretty sure Helen Clarke was talking about it when she was PM.

 

I don't know ANY retired 65 year olds. 

 

Perhaps they should exempt trades people or something, people who have put significant stress on their bodies and aren't fit to continue beyond that point. 

 

20 Years is a LONG lead up.

 

As someone affected, I'm 100% fine with it, but I really hope to not be needing the money to live off any way.

 

 

I have been on a job recently where the semi-retired builder had been pulled back out of retirement for the project. His main problem seemed to have been stress caused by building specs getting so complicated these days, not any physical aspects of the job. I can't see why 60yo people need any warning that national super has to wait for a couple of years, they have as much ability to work as 65 year olds will in 20 years time.

 

Why not make it work tested for the first 2 years (with an expectation that most people will only be semi retired), and after that means tested based on a substantial retirement saving that translates to a minimum annuity. There also needs to be a far more sustainable way of dealing with this as the number of tax payers reduces as a % of population. I think compulsory savings for wage earners is a start.





Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  # 1735377 12-Mar-2017 18:43
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SJB:

 

 

If you claim NZ Super, you cannot also get the UK State pension (no matter that you may have contributed hugely to tax in both nations...!). Alternatively you can opt for the UK pension and forgo the NZ pension. That does not affect a private or company scheme you may have in addition.

 

 

I believe you can get both a UK pension and NZ Super. There's info on the NZ Super site. However the NZ Super amount is reduced by the amount of UK pension you get.

 

As the UK pension paid to anyone in NZ never changes (ie it is the same from day 1 until you die) NZ Super is a good way of topping it up and possibly keeping up with inflation.

 

 

This piqued my interest a couple of days ago, and I have been doing some more research into it:

 

http://www.ird.govt.nz/technical-tax/legislation/2013/2013-52/2013-52-os-benefits/leg-2013-52-os-benefits.html

 

The principal is clear - technically, the maths is that if you work between 20-65, you earn 1/540 the multiplier every month you work as the adjuster to a monthly pension, whatever that number may be. Not sure how that works for times when you were unemployed and not contributing, or if the foreign country decides youre not eligible because you weren't there long enough. The UK has a minimum 10-year contribution period of the new pension, and a factored-over-30 years older style pension. Gives me a headache thinking about it.

 

It will no doubt get interesting when those of us who went overseas in the last 25 years for a spell learn of this factor rate, and it becomes part of their calculations of what will happen when they do choose to stop working.

 

It's good that there is a conversation happening - even if it is an angry one, with everyone blaming everyone and personal beliefs being attacked left and right. Not sure how this energy is going to be turned into something more productive - it's always been clear that people should be saving for their retirement, but that is voodoo science at the best of times.

 

 





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Antonios K

 

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  # 1735394 12-Mar-2017 19:58
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TeaLeaf:

 

Didnt see this thread. These are my thoughts.

 

Im tired of pensions not being raised now instead my generation will have to pay for baby boomers retiring and when I am set to retire, its not a question, but I will be made to work longer.

 

 

 

Lastly pensions have to be income tested like the guy who cant work due to disability. That person and his partner cant save for super, yet someone retiring now with a $4m property, $1m in the bank, 2 cars and a boat has no income testing, wtf do they need $300 a week for.

 

 

 

Pensions arent based on your tax over your life time, they are taken from the budget year in year out, you dont EARN a pension by paying taxes. Just like the guy who breaks his back and cant claim a disability benefit doesnt EARN a benefit through his previous taxes. 

 

Anyway this latest from Mr English makes me mad. Not only this, when NZ RE and Economy bursts, where will Mr Key be to answer these lending questions?

 

 

 

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/326054/superannuation-your-questions-answered

 

Stop making us pay so the old Polis and their generation get a free ride for us to pay for.

 

 

You do. Since super stopped, your taxes fund your pension.

 

The best way to manage retirement is compulsory retirement savings. If you wish to get 15 years pension, you save 15/40, hopefully including a scheme that can return more than inflation (to give you more years, or a better 15 years) 

 

Then its out of the Govt hands. Govt can say that we budget x% for pensions, so reduce tax by that, as currently our taxes are funding pensions. Make the deductions tax free, and tax the pension or make the deductions taxable and doing tax the pension. The retirement age will cease to exist, and its user choice when they retire.

 

The the rich ones won't be ripping off the system, but to be fair, they paid the tax that funds pensions so why cant they get them?

 

 


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  # 1735399 12-Mar-2017 20:07
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mattwnz:

 

It looks like this policy, if it does ever get through, is targeting those around 40 and younger. Those people are the same as people who were affected by fees being introduced on university education, and significant increase in house prices, which in some areas are now 10 times the average wage, which is the most unaffordable in the world. So many of those will still be paying off their mortgage at retirement, let along having the money saved to make up for the shortfall in incoming money. People who are 40ish are going to be the ones worst affected as they will have the least time to plan to find the extra $50k+ they would have got it it had been left at 65. It is funny how politicians, most of who are older than the cut off age and over 40, will be least affected. Putting younger generations in a worse position than generations before them,  with changes in policy like this, is not good. When it was changed in the 90's, from 60, up to 65, at least there was a good reason for it, and that was that the country was in some financial trouble and needed to cut the budget.

 

I think they really need to work out a way to reduce house prices significantly for genuine NZ home buyers. Other policies such as using kiwisaver, has only helped to increase prices, due to a lack of supply, and people paying up tot heir limit they could borrow.. They need to prevent overseas people buying our houses, and make them build new instead. They also need to have some form of government company to buy building materials cheaply,to bring in competition into the building sector.

 

 

Im not sure what house prices have got to do with it. House prices arent rising as baby boomers started buying every house they could 30 years ago. House prices are raised by super low interest rates. If interest rates went to baby boomer levels, you can guarantee that house prices would drop by a lot. With rates as low as they are, a couple will pay what they can repay, low interest means they can pay heaps more. Baby boomers were paying 15% and higher rates, so the prices reflected that. 

 

What I would like to know is if house prices are artificially high due to interest rates being so low, I should look at building, as building costs are wages and materials, which fall into our super low inflation rate. But your not going to save $200,000 by building. Why? Don't blame the consents process as that has been with us a long time. Don't blame the builders as some have gone bust.  I'm pointing the finger at $1 million plus her acre land. You talk about million dollar houses, but an acre is a million as well. Its dirt. Its risen to make up the difference so the house becomes a million dollar house 


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  # 1735403 12-Mar-2017 20:14
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larknz: A lot of people forget that us poor old baby boomers have already had to postpone our retirement to pay for the pre baby boomer generation. When I started work the retirement age was 60.

 

Exactly. Every generation differs. Pros and Cons. Baby boomers often bought do ups as they could not afford new homes. Their parents could build a new home on one income, and did. These days everyone wants a palace. Maybe kids these days could work towards a cheaper do up to get on the property ladder. Eww yuck, no. 


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  # 1735412 12-Mar-2017 20:26
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tdgeek:

 

The best way to manage retirement is compulsory retirement savings. If you wish to get 15 years pension, you save 15/40, hopefully including a scheme that can return more than inflation (to give you more years, or a better 15 years) 

 

Then its out of the Govt hands. Govt can say that we budget x% for pensions, so reduce tax by that, as currently our taxes are funding pensions. Make the deductions tax free, and tax the pension or make the deductions taxable and doing tax the pension. The retirement age will cease to exist, and its user choice when they retire.

 

The the rich ones won't be ripping off the system, but to be fair, they paid the tax that funds pensions so why cant they get them?

 

 

The problem is there will be those who can't save / won't save, and they can't be left to starve. So the ones who do save will also be the ones who pay for the ones who haven't.

 

Any means testing of national pension is just extra incentive not to make your own provisions


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  # 1735429 12-Mar-2017 21:03
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tdgeek:

 

These days everyone wants a palace. Maybe kids these days could work towards a cheaper do up to get on the property ladder. Eww yuck, no. 

 

 

Plenty of do ups available for those Aucklanders wanting to get on the property ladder.

 

In Huntly.


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