Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
Fat bottom Trump
9949 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

Subscriber

  # 1736843 15-Mar-2017 13:06
2 people support this post
Send private message

I have nothing to hide and that is my problem. I don't want the neighbours to know.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


13911 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6654

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1736844 15-Mar-2017 13:10
8 people support this post
Send private message

I have nothing to hide however if the Government wants to know that they should prove to a Judge that they need to know. Then there is oversight and a record. Fishing trips without reasonable cause have no place in a democracy.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


20067 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6113

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1736845 15-Mar-2017 13:12
Send private message

MikeB4: I have nothing to hide however if the Government wants to know that they should prove to a Judge that they need to know. Then there is oversight and a record. Fishing trips without reasonable cause have no place in a democracy.

 

 

 

I agree with this. I don't mind being put under surveillance if a warrant was gained, showing reason.


Fat bottom Trump
9949 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

Subscriber

  # 1736852 15-Mar-2017 13:25
2 people support this post
Send private message

networkn:

 

 

 

I agree with this. I don't mind being put under surveillance if a warrant was gained, showing reason.

 

 

You mean like the warrant that started this thread? Welcome to your new life as a sex criminal.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


20067 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6113

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1736859 15-Mar-2017 13:43
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

I agree with this. I don't mind being put under surveillance if a warrant was gained, showing reason.

 

 

You mean like the warrant that started this thread? Welcome to your new life as a sex criminal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that was horrible, I feel for the guy. it made for sombering reading. However, if we stopped issuing warrants and taking down crooks, because of a few cases that go wrong, the harm to society would be much higher. 

 

I believe that accusations for sex crimes should be handled MUCH more carefully. Obviously it's critical to protect the potential victim, but wow, the accused's life is basically over no matter the outcome too. There will always be those who think "where there is smoke there is fire".

 

60K GBP doesn't seem a lot for what they put him through I don't think, but not sure you could EVER find enough money to compensate him. Maybe if they relocated him and his family to another country and he could start over. 

 

 


Fat bottom Trump
9949 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

Subscriber

  # 1739855 15-Mar-2017 14:19
3 people support this post
Send private message

networkn:

 

However, if we stopped issuing warrants and taking down crooks, because of a few cases that go wrong, the harm to society would be much higher. 

 

 

Actually, I agree with you on this. There are special cases where surveillance is warranted (no pun intended) and necessary. I do have an issue with the blind faith assumption of many people that if something comes from an 'authority', that is all you need to trust it. Experience has repeatedly shown that authority is not to be trusted. It needs to be constantly challenged, questioned and held to account. People make mistakes, but when the mistake, whether malicious or not, is from people acting for a State authority, the consequences of it can be huge for the victims. That is why we need robust checks and balances.

 

 

 

   





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


gzt

10708 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1761


  # 1739859 15-Mar-2017 14:32
One person supports this post
Send private message

Dynamic:

 

I came across the article linked below this morning which, while not directly related to indiscriminate government surveillance, gives an example of how a completely innocent party's life has been left in tatters (along with members of his extended family) due to law enforcement officials 'getting it wrong' in one form or another.

 

 

I'm amazed the compensation was so low. Approx NZ$120K.

20067 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6113

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1739863 15-Mar-2017 14:36
One person supports this post
Send private message

gzt:
Dynamic:

 

I came across the article linked below this morning which, while not directly related to indiscriminate government surveillance, gives an example of how a completely innocent party's life has been left in tatters (along with members of his extended family) due to law enforcement officials 'getting it wrong' in one form or another.

 

I'm amazed the compensation was so low. Approx NZ$120K.

 

 

 

Same. My biggest fear, or consequence would be not being able to see my kids. I think that would literally kill me. The thought of it makes me feel like being sick. I don't think any amount of money could compensate me for that.

 

 




2531 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 753

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1739864 15-Mar-2017 14:44
One person supports this post
Send private message

networkn: My biggest fear, or consequence would be not being able to see my kids. I think that would literally kill me. The thought of it makes me feel like being sick. I don't think any amount of money could compensate me for that.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking, and why I started this thread when I saw that article.





"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

5376 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2201


  # 1739869 15-Mar-2017 15:09
2 people support this post
Send private message

I don't see how police can realistically justify the arrest of any individual based on a household IP address ...

 

Search and seizure, would have been justified if they'd had the right IP address.





Mike

810 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 191
Inactive user


  # 1739879 15-Mar-2017 15:32
Send private message

What gets me about this specific case is how long it took to review evidence and find the mistake. ~6 years was it?, so they probably never found the real sex offender, on top of the miscarraige of justice. When they found nothing on search why didn't they review their starting point then - that would have been the end of it, and they might have found the person they were after.

Fat bottom Trump
9949 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

Subscriber

  # 1739882 15-Mar-2017 15:35
One person supports this post
Send private message

Another reason to not be excessively trusting of authority is that the people 'in charge' often get swept up in the panic de jour. In the case cited in this thread, it was the overreaction caused by the Jimmy Saville episode in the UK. Here we had our own 'day care sexual abuse hysteria' with the Peter Ellis case. If he really is innocent, what a travesty. How would you like to be in his shoes? Even if he is not, 99% of what was being spouted at the time is patent nonsense. The children just said what they thought their incompetent questioners wanted to hear. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


4896 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2411

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1739885 15-Mar-2017 15:41
8 people support this post
Send private message

scuwp:

 

How much has been prevented by effective use of surveillance and measured actions taken responsibly?  This is rarely published...

 

 

 

 

Indeed, because 'national security'. Which is a pretty weak argument, really. The smart crooks assume they're being watched without being told. The dumb ones will still do dumb stuff even if you tell them not to.

 

There are plenty of people who can demonstrate the basic maths to show that blanket surveillance and profiling doesn't work (for example, this page) as it simply throws up an enormous load of false positives when you look for something rare, even if your test is unreasonably accurate. In the first example, if 1% of people are sick, there is only a 50% chance that a positive result is true. Consider terrorists - how many are there in NZ? A 1% chance implies 45,000 terrorists in NZ, which is surely rubbish. Let's assume there are "only" 450 terrorists in NZ ... In that case, a positive result from this 99% effective test is only 0.5% likely to yield a true terrorist.

 

And that's why we don't publish the effectiveness of blanket surveillance. Because if the public knew that 99.5% of the information it provided was rubbish, they'd demand we did something more useful with all that money instead.

 

And as a counterpoint, there were plenty of terrorists for which specific knowledge was already available, and yet they were not stopped. The 9/11 hijackers were known to authorities, the FBI was tipped off about the underpants bomber by his father, Russian security warned the FBI about the Boston Marathon bombers, and the French and Belgian attackers were already known and in some cases previously convicted.

 

But if maths - and the available evidence - are all wrong, then all that doubt and misinformation can be easily dispelled. Tell us who you caught.

 

Trust is earned, not demanded. I would do what the law requires me to do, but I see no reason to trust any service - even a government one - that simply demands I trust them just because and refuses to do anything to show they deserve it.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


Fat bottom Trump
9949 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

Subscriber

  # 1739887 15-Mar-2017 15:44
Send private message

SaltyNZ:

 

 

 

 

Many +1's.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


20067 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6113

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1739888 15-Mar-2017 15:46
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

 

 

 

Many +1's.

 

 

 

 

I wish I could -1 many times :-)


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Video game market in New Zealand passes half billion dollar mark
Posted 24-May-2019 16:15


WLG-X festival to celebrate creativity and innovation
Posted 22-May-2019 17:53


HPE to acquire supercomputing leader Cray
Posted 20-May-2019 11:07


Techweek starting around NZ today
Posted 20-May-2019 09:52


Porirua City Council first to adopt new council software solution Datascape
Posted 15-May-2019 12:00


New survey provides insight into schools' technology challenges and plans
Posted 15-May-2019 09:30


Apple Music now available on Alexa devices in Australia and New Zealand
Posted 15-May-2019 09:11


Make a stand against cyberbullying this Pink Shirt Day
Posted 14-May-2019 20:23


Samsung first TV manufacturer to launch the Apple TV App and Airplay 2
Posted 14-May-2019 20:11


Vodafone New Zealand sold
Posted 14-May-2019 07:25


Kordia boosts cloud performance with locally-hosted Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 10:25


Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute in New Zealand opens up faster, more secure internet for Kiwi businesses
Posted 8-May-2019 09:39


Vocus Communications to deliver Microsoft Azure Cloud Solutions through Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 09:25


Independent NZ feature film #statusPending to premiere during WLG-X
Posted 6-May-2019 22:13


The ultimate dog photoshoot with Nokia 9 PureView #ForgottenDogsofInstagram
Posted 6-May-2019 09:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.