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719 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1740653 17-Mar-2017 10:53 5 people support this post Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

dickytim:

 

This whole argument is BS.

 

Most of the posters here will post more damning information on a public forum than surveillance will ever pickup then cry "oh my privacy is being invaded" when someone snaps them going through a red light or speeding.

 

Really... Get over it. If one violent criminal is captured by a slight, and mostly unknown invasion of my privacy that has been a good day.

 

And to the OP if you want to ask that question at least link to an article that has the situation you are referring to, i.e. an innocent that was watched and that caused then to be convicted of a crime they were not guilty of.   

 

 

If you had read past the first post, you would have found the link. Apart from that, you are missing the point. What people put up on public fora is what they choose to reveal. That choice is absent when you are subjected to mass surveillance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For example, maybe a prominent Male lawyer/doctor/accountant/businessman maybe like to dress in nappies/womens clothing/etc at home.

 

Its no body business by him and his families. However mass surveillance may well pick up on this, this could lead to that person being pressured into making certain choices

 

or that information gets leaked. Thing is, that behaviour happens, its not illegal, its not immoral, its not any of your business, however the risk of public ridicule among

 

friends, family, professional colleagues is a powerful weapon open to abuse for financial /political reasons , i.e. perhaps someone is "encouraged" not to stand for parliament ,

 

not to take on a particular client, etc etc etc. So, yes, this person DOES have something to hide, just as 30-40 years ago being openly gay was not possible for most.

 

 

 

The hacking of several alphabet soup departments in the USA , if nothing else, proves that even they can be hacked. This means that any information they have can also be hacked.

 

The ONLY way to keep information "safe" is not to have it and mass surveillance removes that option, for everyone.

 

 


2358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 775


  Reply # 1742669 17-Mar-2017 12:28 2 people support this post Send private message quote this post

sir1963:

 

The hacking of several alphabet soup departments in the USA , if nothing else, proves that even they can be hacked. This means that any information they have can also be hacked.

 

The ONLY way to keep information "safe" is not to have it and mass surveillance removes that option, for everyone.

 

 

I think that's a very solid argument.





Mike

 

 



JNA

21 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 1742782 17-Mar-2017 14:45 Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

However, if we stopped issuing warrants and taking down crooks, because of a few cases that go wrong, the harm to society would be much higher. 

 

 

Actually, I agree with you on this. There are special cases where surveillance is warranted (no pun intended) and necessary. I do have an issue with the blind faith assumption of many people that if something comes from an 'authority', that is all you need to trust it. Experience has repeatedly shown that authority is not to be trusted. It needs to be constantly challenged, questioned and held to account. People make mistakes, but when the mistake, whether malicious or not, is from people acting for a State authority, the consequences of it can be huge for the victims. That is why we need robust checks and balances.  

 

 

... let's not forget, with the exception of Diseases and significant Natural Events ... governments are the leading killers, maimers and harmers of people. Period. All with "good intentions" ... except for those Dictators from the middle of last Century ... they were flat out inhumane.

 

 


719 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 314


  Reply # 1742793 17-Mar-2017 15:04 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

JNA:

 

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

However, if we stopped issuing warrants and taking down crooks, because of a few cases that go wrong, the harm to society would be much higher. 

 

 

Actually, I agree with you on this. There are special cases where surveillance is warranted (no pun intended) and necessary. I do have an issue with the blind faith assumption of many people that if something comes from an 'authority', that is all you need to trust it. Experience has repeatedly shown that authority is not to be trusted. It needs to be constantly challenged, questioned and held to account. People make mistakes, but when the mistake, whether malicious or not, is from people acting for a State authority, the consequences of it can be huge for the victims. That is why we need robust checks and balances.  

 

 

... let's not forget, with the exception of Diseases and significant Natural Events ... governments are the leading killers, maimers and harmers of people. Period. All with "good intentions" ... except for those Dictators from the middle of last Century ... they were flat out inhumane.

 

 

 

 

Actually I think doctors rank right up there too. Something like 15,000 people are shot and killed in the USA each year, but something like 250,000 die because of medical errors


JNA

21 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 1742798 17-Mar-2017 15:13 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

"250,000 die because of medical errors" ... that is a decent number but I wonder if statistically in terms of Operations performed and the total resident population it is par for the course?


1773 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 200


  Reply # 1743707 19-Mar-2017 09:21 Send private message quote this post

I may have nothing to hide but that doesn't mean I'm ok with which ever govt dept wants to just snoop through my shiz if you want to look get a warrant because without good cause you aren't getting a free look 





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2729 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 720

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  Reply # 1743897 19-Mar-2017 16:48 Send private message quote this post

dickytim: And to the OP if you want to ask that question at least link to an article that has the situation you are referring to, i.e. an innocent that was watched and that caused then to be convicted of a crime they were not guilty of. 

 

Rikkitic: If you had read past the first post, you would have found the link.

 

Not correct at all - the linked article was all about a typo that led to a man being falsely accused etc. Mass surveillance had *zero* to do with the situation.

 

I agree about surveillance being targeted (not mass) and needing to be authorised by the judiciary as this can usually be a fairly good check on the exercising of official powers, but can't help giggling at the level of paranoia being displayed by some here.

 

Edit: added the original remark from dickytim that Rikkitic was responding to for clarity/context.


4477 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2009

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  Reply # 1743936 19-Mar-2017 17:25 Send private message quote this post

I think the point that was raised in this thread, which I fully agree with, is that indiscriminate mass surveillance can and will lead to the kind of mistakes that destroyed that family's life, which is yet another reason why it is a bad idea. An an illustration of that point, the item linked to has everything to do with mass surveillance.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


2729 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 720

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  Reply # 1743988 19-Mar-2017 18:24 Send private message quote this post

Even the OP (Dynamic) says in his post "while not directly related to indiscriminate government surveillance" so obviously I'm missing something. How does a typo equate to mass surveillance?

4477 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2009

Subscriber

  Reply # 1743996 19-Mar-2017 18:42 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

I didn't say it did. I said mass surveillance will result in more typos and other errors. As a result, innocent people will suffer. Mass surveillance is a bad idea for different reasons, including this one. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


90 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 1746703 23-Mar-2017 22:08 Send private message quote this post

Well worth a read - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565&

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