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  # 1763702 13-Apr-2017 12:00
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Yep.  If you didn't do it, there can't be any proof that you did it.  So fight them.  


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  # 1763716 13-Apr-2017 12:12
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TimA:

 

Clearly you didnt cause the damage,

 

 

 

Sorry, but how do you know that?

 

Whether he did cause the damage or not, it is up to the company to prove that he did, so at least he has that on his side. Everything else is quite irrelevant and there are stiff penalties for companies that get it wrong. The best advice given in this thread is to attend the meeting and not respond until after all the facts are disclosed. Any response should then be within an agreed and realistic timeframe.

 

Assumptions are not enough reason to fire anybody, so if the OP did not cause any damage (as he has stated) and the company has no tangible proof to the contrary, he does not have too much to worry about.

 

The sad thing about any disciplinary meeting is the bad taste it can often leave with all parties if not handled correctly. In the OP's case it may be preferable to grin and bear it during his visa application period, or at least until another fulltime position is found.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1763737 13-Apr-2017 12:24
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Unless the damage (regardless of who caused it) was wilfully done rather than accidental, I can't see the case here at all personally. How do they know the cleaners did not do it? Unless they are about to spring evidence on you like CCTV or witnesses, it seems likely they are on a fishing expedition.






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  # 1763741 13-Apr-2017 12:29
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DaveB:

 

TimA:

 

Clearly you didnt cause the damage,

 

 

 

Sorry, but how do you know that?

 

Whether he did cause the damage or not, it is up to the company to prove that he did, so at least he has that on his side. Everything else is quite irrelevant and there are stiff penalties for companies that get it wrong. The best advice given in this thread is to attend the meeting and not respond until after all the facts are disclosed. Any response should then be within an agreed and realistic timeframe.

 

Assumptions are not enough reason to fire anybody, so if the OP did not cause any damage (as he has stated) and the company has no tangible proof to the contrary, he does not have too much to worry about.

 

The sad thing about any disciplinary meeting is the bad taste it can often leave with all parties if not handled correctly. In the OP's case it may be preferable to grin and bear it during his visa application period, or at least until another fulltime position is found.

 

 

 

 

I dont but the OP has stated he was not involved in any way. Clearly this is intentional physical damage and not a mere accident. Maybe i shouldnt have been so direct stating that he "Clearly didnt cause it" and said Op persists he was not involved.

The second thing on my mind given it was your desk and a co workers, Do you have any grievances with anyone in the company? Maybe someones trying to set you up? 
The sentence that worked for me during a Formal Disciplinary meeting i had 2 years ago was "I feel Harassed and framed for something i did not do" As soon as the word harassment comes out people are very quick to drop their case.


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  # 1763782 13-Apr-2017 13:08
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I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do in a situation like this but I can tell you what I think I would do. I would attend the meeting, tell my story, and fight any accusations. Any other course of action can come back to bite you in unexpected ways sometime in the future. If you have done nothing wrong, you need to stand up for that. I strongly agree with those who recommend taking a support person along if there is someone suitable you can call on. Just having someone there will make you feel less outnumbered and can help you to stay focused. You need a friend or advocate who is confident and will remain calm and quiet but can help clarify things if necessary.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1763786 13-Apr-2017 13:19
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Rikkitic:

 

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do in a situation like this but I can tell you what I think I would do. I would attend the meeting, tell my story, and fight any accusations. Any other course of action can come back to bite you in unexpected ways sometime in the future. If you have done nothing wrong, you need to stand up for that. I strongly agree with those who recommend taking a support person along if there is someone suitable you can call on. Just having someone there will make you feel less outnumbered and can help you to stay focused. You need a friend or advocate who is confident and will remain calm and quiet but can help clarify things if necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Rikkitic and I have been known to disagree on occasion. In this, however, we do not.






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  # 1763791 13-Apr-2017 13:27
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Also record the meeting on your phone or something similar. Be up front at the start of the meeting and say that you will be recording it. It can be a stressful situation and you may not hear or comprehend what is being said in the meeting at the time and you can use the recording as a reference to base your response. Also the recording can be used in wrongful dismissal cases.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1763919 13-Apr-2017 16:10
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Are you a member of an union? I've found them very helpful in similar situations. They offer free legal advice and they can send someone with you (who can be a laywer in more serious cases) who can advise. But if not I would advise getting proper legal advice. For now make sure you document everything that happens as it will help your case if it goes to mediation or employment court.


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  # 1763922 13-Apr-2017 16:18
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NZ has quite solid guidelines in law for managing scenario's like this, that have been tested in court and made quite robust. Immigration status does not matter unless you are here illegally, and that is a seperate issue.

 

 

 

Seriously though, a community website like GKZ is not the place to come for final supporting advice, and you should engage an employement lawyer; there are quite a few around and this sounds like a clear cut railroading exercise.

 

 

 

Regardless, I doubt you will want to work at this place whatever the conclusion, so all you are working on is making sure your professional reputation isn't being unjustly diminished and shat on - your next employer will want to know why you left etc. 

 

 

 

 





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  # 1763962 13-Apr-2017 17:05
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Was the desktop on when the screen was damaged? If so, the logs will show a device disconnect, thus proving of a time damage occurred. 





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  # 1763980 13-Apr-2017 17:50
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This seems serious.

 

I would suggest:

 

1.  Asking for a delay, to allow you to arrange for someone to be at the meeting with you.

 

2.  Consulting a lawyer immediatley.

 

3.  Not relying on GZ denizens for that legal advice. We mean well, but we aren't experts on this. And advice from an actual expert is what you should obtain.

 

4.  Not doing anything, including tabling a letter or resignation otherwise, until you have consulted a lawyer.


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  # 1763983 13-Apr-2017 17:52
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I'm not a lawyer, thank goodness, but I am an employer of about 100 people. Here's what you should and shouldn't do:

1. And this is the most important thing; don't have the meeting unless you have a support person with you in the room, taking notes. You are allowed to do this, and you are allowed time to organise a person.
2. Don't resign, and importantly never resign citing reasons (this is good general advice actually).
3. Listen to their case, don't interrupt. When asked for your response be as clear and concise as possible "I didn't cause the damage, and I don't know who did". Nothing else - wait for them to respond.
4. If asked questions, answer clearly and in a straightforward way; again, be as brief and terse as possible, and make them make the running.
5. If they want to take it further, suggest you need time to respond after you've had time to think about your options. Mention you need to seek legal advice. You'll need a week to do this, at minimum. Then seek legal advice at citizens advice Centre.

The key here is to keep calm, don't argue, don't ever say 'yes, but' or even 'but'. Don't embellish anything or start sounding like you are making excuses - be as brief as possible in your comments and pause, wait for them to speak. Uncomfortable silences work to your advantage here, trust me.

I do need to say this does seem like a trivial issue, and I'm suspicious there is history here.




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  # 1764164 14-Apr-2017 08:48
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throbb:

 

emilyrain:

 

The thing that concerns me about the firing thing is that it would go on my record for 12 months, I can't risk that because of trying to apply for residency I might get rejected for the visa hence more stress, my current visa is up in July so I'm getting the application sent in the next few weeks

 

 

 

 

What record are you talking about? There is no record that tracks reasons for leaving jobs.

 

 

Immigration  might contact employers in person I guess. 

 

Going off topic a little, as I guess this meeting has been held already. 

 

But it reminds me of the Wells Fargo scandal where setting unachievable sales targets.   Employees refusing to meet unrealistic targets through unethical means were fired, and a U5 form filed with Finra which effectively blackballs the employee from working in the banking industry. It must have been hell having a rogue employer permanently marking your employment record when you'd done nothing wrong. 


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  # 1764271 14-Apr-2017 12:15
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antoniosk:

 

Seriously though, a community website like GKZ is not the place to come for final supporting advice

 

 

Yep agreed, which is why it's pleasing to see so many GZ members have been responsible enough to advise seeking official advice as part of their response.


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