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Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1765345 17-Apr-2017 16:19
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Dunnersfella:

 

The point to remember when comparing your efforts at satire with those of Spitting Image and other such satirists...

 

Is...

 

They're funny.

 

 

If you had ever seen anything by Gerald Scarfe or Ralph Steadman, you would know that being funny has very little to do with effective political caricature.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1765358 17-Apr-2017 16:46
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Stay on topic our CBD deserves it tongue-out





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  # 1765359 17-Apr-2017 16:52
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Geektastic: I must say that the sooner Queen Street and Lambton Quay are pedestrianised the better.

 

Problem with Queen street is it's built in a gully and unlike say Melbourne where there are lots of parallel streets .  Auckland's only parallel street is Albert Street that is being dug up.    Hobson and Nelson Sts are a long way from Q st and no where near public transport of the bus variety. 





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  # 1765379 17-Apr-2017 17:34
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old3eyes:

 

Geektastic: I must say that the sooner Queen Street and Lambton Quay are pedestrianised the better.

 

Problem with Queen street is it's built in a gully and unlike say Melbourne where there are lots of parallel streets .  Auckland's only parallel street is Albert Street that is being dug up.    Hobson and Nelson Sts are a long way from Q st and no where near public transport of the bus variety. 

 

 


Why do you need a parallel street to ban cars during the day? No one drives to shop on Queen street or Lambton (ever tried parking? Who would bother?) and if delivery vehicles are allowed access between say 1900 and 0600 that works fine elsewhere in the world.






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  # 1766417 17-Apr-2017 21:01
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IMO, Gerry has a point.

 

In Wellington, I don't tend to go into the city to shop, despite the fact that it's closer than most alternatives. I typically go to Tawa, Johnsonville, Porrirua, or occasionally Petone. The reason for that is parking - Wellington doesn't have enough of it, and what it has tends to be inconvenient and expensive. I can hunt for a park, wind up miles from where I want to go, and suffer the aggravation and expense of Wilson Parking. Or, I can go to a large alternate destination, with most of the shops I want clustered together, that has free parking and plenty of it.

 

As a consequence, Wellington CBD retail is struggling and many of the big retailers have moved out. Apart from a few like JB HiFi and Farmers, it's pretty much a selection of small clothing boutiques, eateries and coffee shops to catch the lunchtime foot traffic.  Most people don't go there to shop on weekends etc because the parking situation is so awful.

 

I even go to the Reading cinema in Porirua now - because I can park easily and for free.

 

Despite the utopian visions of the neck-beards, most people (especially with families) want to go somewhere where they can park.


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  # 1766428 17-Apr-2017 21:27
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JimmyH:

 

IMO, Gerry has a point.

 

In Wellington, I don't tend to go into the city to shop, despite the fact that it's closer than most alternatives. I typically go to Tawa, Johnsonville, Porrirua, or occasionally Petone. The reason for that is parking - Wellington doesn't have enough of it, and what it has tends to be inconvenient and expensive. I can hunt for a park, wind up miles from where I want to go, and suffer the aggravation and expense of Wilson Parking. Or, I can go to a large alternate destination, with most of the shops I want clustered together, that has free parking and plenty of it.

 

As a consequence, Wellington CBD retail is struggling and many of the big retailers have moved out. Apart from a few like JB HiFi and Farmers, it's pretty much a selection of small clothing boutiques, eateries and coffee shops to catch the lunchtime foot traffic.  Most people don't go there to shop on weekends etc because the parking situation is so awful.

 

I even go to the Reading cinema in Porirua now - because I can park easily and for free.

 

Despite the utopian visions of the neck-beards, most people (especially with families) want to go somewhere where they can park.

 

 

 

 

I prefer shopping in Wellington, I hate Malls especially Queensgate. Getting parking in the city can be a real pain, not enough spaces and no where near enough mobility parks especially when some of them have skips on them and many with cars parked without mobility permits.

 

 

 

Christchurch needs to plan to have ample parking to keep the CBD alive





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1766454 18-Apr-2017 00:25
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Auckland Transport has put too many "no right turns" on alot of the central Auckland streets. Albert street was particularly bad - even before they started digging it up to build the rail loop. These funnel more traffic onto Queen st. I think that Queen st from Mayoral drive to the water front should be one way,  With Albert st also one way. In a clockwise loop. And Customs st, Tangihua st Quay st and lower Hobson st in an anticlockwise loop. You would be able to get rid of heaps of traffic lights. Which will speed up buses as well as cars.

 

High st should instead be a pedestrian mall. As it is far narrower than Queen st. And is not needed to access other streets.

 

As for Christchurch CBD, I doubt that they have all of the universities, private schools, high rise offices, high rise apartments, that Auckland has. And it definitely doesn't have a cruise ship terminal as part of the CBD. So there won't be enough captive population to support that many shops. So I actually agree with Gerry on that point. More parking is needed.

 

And why does Auckland council and Auckland transport provide cars to so many of their staff? If their staff members had to take public transport, it would get fixed in no time. For example Auckland transport didn't want to use the former Waitakere city council office building, and are instead moving into the Vodafone CBD building. Reason - public transport to west Auckland is not good enough. Despite the Waitakere council building being next door to the Henderson train station. And the council presumably doesn't believe that the central rail loop will improve rail transport enough for them to be able to use that office.

 

But this is the same council that bought NZ tallest leaky building to use as their new headquarters. So they can't do anything right.






 
 
 
 


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  # 1766461 18-Apr-2017 01:46
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As someone who actually lives and works in Christchurch, I'd like to add my 10 cents...

 

I live in Bishopdale, 10 minutes drive from the airport, and my office is sort of in the CBD - but on the far side of it. Due to the ludicrous route changes the bus people made, my best bussing option (according to their website) is for me to get on a bus at Harewood Rd heading OUT of town, via the airport, Avonhead and Upper Riccarton. Plot those locations on a map and you will see how ridiculous the route looks - it's basically a wide circle around much of the city and I can only imagine how long it would take. There is a more direct route, but it involves a 2 km walk to a different bus stop the next suburb over, and according to the Metro Info website it would still take over an hour. Prior to the route changes, any bus travelling along Harewood Rd would have got me to the CBD directly in less than 30 minutes.

 

Conversely, I drive the same trip every day in less than 15 minutes door to door. I am lucky in that I only pay $20/week for allocated, access controlled indoor parking - which I imagine is less than it would cost me in bus fares. My colleagues not as fortunate as me have to deal with Wilson Parking. Their carparks in Christchurch largely consist of uneven gravel demolition sites which usually flood in light rain, for about $6 a day.

 

The powers that be can't expect people to use public transport when the system they have come up with is so fundamentally flawed and not fit for purpose. Then on top of that, they strip away - or at least refuse to replace - the parking options which used to exist.

 

Don't even get me started on the stupid cycle lane fiasco. The other day I saw two lycra-clad d-bags riding side by side down Tuam St at a leisurely pace in the car lane, cars backing up behind them with no room to pass. These cyclists were clearly too important to use the rate payer funded dedicated cycle lane beside them. Hundreds of income producing, metered, on street car parks were removed to make way for this cycle lane, so when I see idiots like that not even using it, and holding up traffic in the process, when we the ratepayers forked out for it, it really, really irks me.

 

 

 

 




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  # 1766529 18-Apr-2017 09:22
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I don’t know if New Zealand urban planners are complete idiots or not so I won’t step into that hornets’ nest. What I think I do know, or at least believe, is that the era of the private motor car is coming to an end. It may hang on for another 10 years or 20, but its days are numbered. Out of necessity the world is moving towards public transport, with solutions like urban light rail and maybe self-driving electric runabouts for individual transport.

 

I think New Zealand is a victim of its history. With low population density and spread out towns, we have relied on cars to get around. As cities have developed, they have grown around that model. A result is the kind of congestion problems now seen in places like Auckland and the difficulty of finding parking in Wellington.

 

I do not believe the solution lies in more roads, more parking, and more cars. At best this is short-term and ultimately self-defeating. Kiwis are still in love with their cars and they have to move away from that if they want to have liveable cities in the future. With the right public transport and urban design configurations, you don’t have to have a car to get around and enjoy life. Suburban shopping malls are not the only alternative choice.

 

Other countries have found good ways to build car-free inner city areas that place the focus back on pedestrians and cyclists. This can be done well. It doesn’t have to result in an impossible mess. Partly it requires a change in attitude away from the obsession with private cars. It is also not hard to accommodate special needs, such as access for emergency vehicles and exemptions for the disabled. These are not obstacles to a different kind of inner city.





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1766534 18-Apr-2017 09:32
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Private cars are not going to disappear, the motive power will change as will their control systems. Planners are doing the correct thing to continue planning for them.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1766673 18-Apr-2017 12:37
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Rikkitic:

 

I don’t know if New Zealand urban planners are complete idiots or not so I won’t step into that hornets’ nest. What I think I do know, or at least believe, is that the era of the private motor car is coming to an end. It may hang on for another 10 years or 20, but its days are numbered. Out of necessity the world is moving towards public transport, with solutions like urban light rail and maybe self-driving electric runabouts for individual transport.

 

I think New Zealand is a victim of its history. With low population density and spread out towns, we have relied on cars to get around. As cities have developed, they have grown around that model. A result is the kind of congestion problems now seen in places like Auckland and the difficulty of finding parking in Wellington.

 

I do not believe the solution lies in more roads, more parking, and more cars. At best this is short-term and ultimately self-defeating. Kiwis are still in love with their cars and they have to move away from that if they want to have liveable cities in the future. With the right public transport and urban design configurations, you don’t have to have a car to get around and enjoy life. Suburban shopping malls are not the only alternative choice.

 

Other countries have found good ways to build car-free inner city areas that place the focus back on pedestrians and cyclists. This can be done well. It doesn’t have to result in an impossible mess. Partly it requires a change in attitude away from the obsession with private cars. It is also not hard to accommodate special needs, such as access for emergency vehicles and exemptions for the disabled. These are not obstacles to a different kind of inner city.

 

 

Get Singapore or Japan to build our infrastructure. Get Kiwis to do it might as well give them a billion dollars to throw down the drain - same thing.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1766689 18-Apr-2017 12:51
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joker97:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I don’t know if New Zealand urban planners are complete idiots or not so I won’t step into that hornets’ nest. What I think I do know, or at least believe, is that the era of the private motor car is coming to an end. It may hang on for another 10 years or 20, but its days are numbered. Out of necessity the world is moving towards public transport, with solutions like urban light rail and maybe self-driving electric runabouts for individual transport.

 

I think New Zealand is a victim of its history. With low population density and spread out towns, we have relied on cars to get around. As cities have developed, they have grown around that model. A result is the kind of congestion problems now seen in places like Auckland and the difficulty of finding parking in Wellington.

 

I do not believe the solution lies in more roads, more parking, and more cars. At best this is short-term and ultimately self-defeating. Kiwis are still in love with their cars and they have to move away from that if they want to have liveable cities in the future. With the right public transport and urban design configurations, you don’t have to have a car to get around and enjoy life. Suburban shopping malls are not the only alternative choice.

 

Other countries have found good ways to build car-free inner city areas that place the focus back on pedestrians and cyclists. This can be done well. It doesn’t have to result in an impossible mess. Partly it requires a change in attitude away from the obsession with private cars. It is also not hard to accommodate special needs, such as access for emergency vehicles and exemptions for the disabled. These are not obstacles to a different kind of inner city.

 

 

Get Singapore or Japan to build our infrastructure. Get Kiwis to do it might as well give them a billion dollars to throw down the drain - same thing.

 

 

 

 

It is not who builds it, it is who pays for it. Kiwis whine about our infrastructure and want roads like Europe or Japan as long as the other guy is paying for it. 





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1766690 18-Apr-2017 12:57
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Rikkitic:

 

I don’t know if New Zealand urban planners are complete idiots or not so I won’t step into that hornets’ nest. What I think I do know, or at least believe, is that the era of the private motor car is coming to an end. It may hang on for another 10 years or 20, but its days are numbered. Out of necessity the world is moving towards public transport, with solutions like urban light rail and maybe self-driving electric runabouts for individual transport.

 

I think New Zealand is a victim of its history. With low population density and spread out towns, we have relied on cars to get around. As cities have developed, they have grown around that model. A result is the kind of congestion problems now seen in places like Auckland and the difficulty of finding parking in Wellington.

 

I do not believe the solution lies in more roads, more parking, and more cars. At best this is short-term and ultimately self-defeating. Kiwis are still in love with their cars and they have to move away from that if they want to have liveable cities in the future. With the right public transport and urban design configurations, you don’t have to have a car to get around and enjoy life. Suburban shopping malls are not the only alternative choice.

 

Other countries have found good ways to build car-free inner city areas that place the focus back on pedestrians and cyclists. This can be done well. It doesn’t have to result in an impossible mess. Partly it requires a change in attitude away from the obsession with private cars. It is also not hard to accommodate special needs, such as access for emergency vehicles and exemptions for the disabled. These are not obstacles to a different kind of inner city.

 

 

I think you're dreaming if you think there will be fewer provate cars in NZ within 10-20 years.  Kiwis (or at least the ones who don't live in inner-city apartments and wish they were Scandinavian) like to do things like towing boats to the beach, going surfing, taking the family plus dog plus a whole heap of gear on holiday, driving to a mate's farm to go hunting, going to the DIY store to bring back a load of stuff to do up their house etc, etc etc.  Plus, a city like ChCh doesn't have (or probably want) the population density to make decent mass transport cost effective.  The only thing excluding cars from inner cities will achieve is making those areas solely used by the inner-city hipsters that live there.


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  # 1766692 18-Apr-2017 12:59
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MikeB4:

 

It is not who builds it, it is who pays for it. Kiwis whine about our infrastructure and want roads like Europe or Japan as long as the other guy is paying for it. 

 

 

Oh believe me Kiwis pay. 

 

THey pay the idiots to build things costing billions that don't work.

 

They pay the idiots again to rebuild things because the first time didn't work. 

 

They pay in the cost of lost productivity because the infrastructure didn't work.

 

They pay the consultants to tell them why it doesn't work but have no solution so they get hired again and again (if you tell the govt they're useless do you think you get asked for more consultancy work? no - tell them how awesome they are and how useless everyone else is - get hired again!).

 

They pay again and again.





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  # 1766693 18-Apr-2017 13:11
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shk292:

 

I think you're dreaming if you think there will be fewer provate cars in NZ within 10-20 years.  Kiwis (or at least the ones who don't live in inner-city apartments and wish they were Scandinavian) like to do things like towing boats to the beach, going surfing, taking the family plus dog plus a whole heap of gear on holiday, driving to a mate's farm to go hunting, going to the DIY store to bring back a load of stuff to do up their house etc, etc etc.  Plus, a city like ChCh doesn't have (or probably want) the population density to make decent mass transport cost effective.  The only thing excluding cars from inner cities will achieve is making those areas solely used by the inner-city hipsters that live there.

 

 

As the country fills up, these things will change. You can't live in the 1950s forever. 

 

I don't doubt that some people will continue to need cars, or will have them for road trips, but they will cease to be necessary or desirable for urban living and cities will no longer be designed around them. This is already the case in some parts of Europe.

 

 

 

 





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