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503 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 213940 20-Apr-2017 08:24

Has anyone else seen this in the Herald?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11841268

This change is quite sad because the younger kiwi generation doesn't want to work for the money that the immigrants are willing to work for to get a foot in the door.

Strictly speaking from hiring staff for the service desk almost all the "kiwis" I have hired have been bad. They are tardy, don't have the drive to work and I have had to let them go. Maybe I just got a bad batch of applicants, maybe there are good workers out there.

But lets forget about me and look at the rest of NZ. How does this affect farmers and immigrant fruit pickers etc.


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  Reply # 1767721 20-Apr-2017 09:17
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Too easy to cruise in NZ and go on the bene or spit out kids

Why would you work when the govt will save you

gzt

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  Reply # 1767743 20-Apr-2017 09:50
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Oriphix: This change is quite sad because the younger kiwi generation doesn't want to work for the money that the immigrants are willing to work for to get a foot in the door.

That implies younger kiwis are working elsewhere in NZ for more money. There are many factors in employment selection, upfront $ are just one. Transport, location, flexibility, all kinds of other factors come into play.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1767762 20-Apr-2017 10:21
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I'd say it has to be done. It was too easy for wrong person to get residency in NZ and leave after 5 years.

It's still relatively easy for high skilled professional to get residency in NZ.

More skilled ppl, more completion for them, higher sallaries.

But this change means higher sallaries for low paid job too... Which will drive business cost up and we will pay more for everything in near future :(




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  Reply # 1767771 20-Apr-2017 10:27
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One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.  They want them fully skilled with previous experience and from what I've seen in the telco industry  they are quite happy to take on immigrants that will work for less than kiwis and they also falsify their CVs  and then the companies  expect the equipment suppliers to train their new staff for free. 





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Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1767849 20-Apr-2017 12:13
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I have spoken to many many farmers. All of them say the same thing.

 

Don't want to hire kiwis - they're useless, don't do their work properly, want more money, keep taking breaks.

 

They want to hire foreigners - they do everything asked of them.




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  Reply # 1767877 20-Apr-2017 13:06

gzt: That implies younger kiwis are working elsewhere in NZ for more money. There are many factors in employment selection, upfront $ are just one. Transport, location, flexibility, all kinds of other factors come into play.


I agree if younger kiwi's can get everything they want, that's fantastic. So why should the immigration penalize the people that are happy to work for less money just because they are not kiwi's? Employers penalized having to up the salary to retain good workers. Not sure this is the magic bullet that the government is hoping for.

nathan: It was too easy for wrong person to get residency in NZ and leave after 5 years.


Why people would go through the hassle of getting residency and then leave. Does this happen alot? Perhaps research needs to be done as to why they leave instead of stopping them getting residency.

old3eyes: One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.


Sadly I have the reverse problem at my work. I am pushing the guys to get certified and we cover that cost yet they don't do it. I guess people get to comfortable with there jobs as well at some stage.

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  Reply # 1767915 20-Apr-2017 14:21
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As someone who spent much longer studying than I should have, to get a degree that doesn't actually pay a lot, I can see some holes in this.

 

Most architectural graduates have spent 5 years studying yet will graduate and be paid less than $49k. They will very likely be paid less than this for several years.

 

I don't know if my profession is placed on the required skills side of immigration rules, but hospitality and health workers are not going to be the only ones affected by the immigration income restriction.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this tweak goes over the next 5 years and whether it effects any (lower paid) jobs that NZ is lacking skilled workers in.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1767945 20-Apr-2017 15:35
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Oriphix:
nathan: It was too easy for wrong person to get residency in NZ and leave after 5 years.


Why people would go through the hassle of getting residency and then leave. Does this happen alot? Perhaps research needs to be done as to why they leave instead of stopping them getting residency.

 

Why? Research has already been done - because we are a stepping stone to other countries, such as Australia. We are not the premier immigration destination, we tend to pick-up other destinations cast-offs (think the UK, USA, Canada, Australia). We are an avenue to Australia for foreigners who can not directly immigrate to Australia, as it is easier to gain residence here, and once you have residence here, you can get into Australia. Consequently New Zealand is suffering a bit of a backlash in that the Australians have been tighten the rules around Kiwis, punishing born & breed, genuine kiwis.

 

It makes sense to tighten our rules if you want to keep Australia (and other countries) more accessible to Kiwi's.


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  Reply # 1767948 20-Apr-2017 15:41
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Immigration is also one of several drivers pushing up house/land prices. Gently applying the hand-brake to immigration will help take a little heat out of the housing market without popping the bubble.

 

The problem for the government is striking a balance between reducing pressure on infrastructure/housing and increasing pressure on employers.

 

These tweaks are necessary from time to time to keep things in balance.


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  Reply # 1767950 20-Apr-2017 15:50
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The question perhaps should not be about immigration but rather emigration?

 

How do we get the lazy kiwis out of the country to make way for hard working immigrants?






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  Reply # 1767977 20-Apr-2017 16:12
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Oriphix: Has anyone else seen this in the Herald?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11841268

This change is quite sad because the younger kiwi generation doesn't want to work for the money that the immigrants are willing to work for to get a foot in the door.

Strictly speaking from hiring staff for the service desk almost all the "kiwis" I have hired have been bad. They are tardy, don't have the drive to work and I have had to let them go. Maybe I just got a bad batch of applicants, maybe there are good workers out there.

But lets forget about me and look at the rest of NZ. How does this affect farmers and immigrant fruit pickers etc.

 

 

 

I don't think that is the case at all in many cases. I think it is more the point that NZers don't want to work for peanuts. Also the fact is they need to be earning a reasonable amount these days to have any hope of buying a house. SO IMO it is that NZers are more ambitious, and believe they should be earning more, so in many cases are.


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  Reply # 1768043 20-Apr-2017 17:47
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Oriphix:
gzt: That implies younger kiwis are working elsewhere in NZ for more money. There are many factors in employment selection, upfront $ are just one. Transport, location, flexibility, all kinds of other factors come into play.


I agree if younger kiwi's can get everything they want, that's fantastic. So why should the immigration penalize the people that are happy to work for less money just because they are not kiwi's? Employers penalized having to up the salary to retain good workers. Not sure this is the magic bullet that the government is hoping for.

nathan: It was too easy for wrong person to get residency in NZ and leave after 5 years.


Why people would go through the hassle of getting residency and then leave. Does this happen alot? Perhaps research needs to be done as to why they leave instead of stopping them getting residency.

old3eyes: One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.


Sadly I have the reverse problem at my work. I am pushing the guys to get certified and we cover that cost yet they don't do it. I guess people get to comfortable with there jobs as well at some stage.

 

it's not a hassle it's an experience.

 

As an immigrant with 15 years in NZ, I know 10 families who got NZ citizenship and next month moved to AU in the past 10 years. So yup, a lot of ppl see NZ as first step to another destination.

 

It's 3 times cheaper to get NZ residency and citizenship than in AU.





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  Reply # 1768048 20-Apr-2017 18:08
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Disrespective:

 

As someone who spent much longer studying than I should have, to get a degree that doesn't actually pay a lot, I can see some holes in this.

 

Most architectural graduates have spent 5 years studying yet will graduate and be paid less than $49k. They will very likely be paid less than this for several years.

 

I don't know if my profession is placed on the required skills side of immigration rules, but hospitality and health workers are not going to be the only ones affected by the immigration income restriction.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this tweak goes over the next 5 years and whether it effects any (lower paid) jobs that NZ is lacking skilled workers in.

 

 

How does the pay improve over time? I understand that with some firms, it is a bit like a law office, where people work themselves up the hierarchy to associate, partners etc, and can get shares in the company too, and that is when the pay can increase a lot.. I have  have the same degree, but don't currently work in that field, although I have done quite a few houses designs etc. It is interesting though how many people who do graduate with the  degree that don't end up working in it, although they may work in a design related field, or head overseas.  IMO it isn't really a profession that appears to be that well regarded in NZ for some reason. But I think that as a result of this, it means we end up with many poor development. It doesn't even appear that some councils use design professionals when planning their town framework.


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  Reply # 1768053 20-Apr-2017 18:35
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tripper1000:

 

Immigration is also one of several drivers pushing up house/land prices. Gently applying the hand-brake to immigration will help take a little heat out of the housing market without popping the bubble.

 

The problem for the government is striking a balance between reducing pressure on infrastructure/housing and increasing pressure on employers.

 

These tweaks are necessary from time to time to keep things in balance.

 

 

 

 

Although with a bubble, any change could also pop it, along with other changes they may not have any control over. The governments inactions created the crisis, and it has taken until now, just before the election to do anything about this particular problem. I am guessing they are doing this now, so it isn't another election issue.


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  Reply # 1768067 20-Apr-2017 18:47
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Immigration is vital for New Zealands future. Our birth rate is not sufficient to grow or maintain our population. Our aging population means we need immigration to grow our work force or we will be in a real mess in 20 years.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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