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  #1778474 9-May-2017 13:49
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shk292:

 

frankv:

 

What problem do you have with Islamification? It sounds like you think it's a bad thing?

 

 

 

 

Primarily I'm opposed to religion having significant influence on the legislative and executive functions of government, or controlling people's lives in extra-judicial ways. 

 

 

Another thing we agree on! :)

 

 

And those things seem to happen more frequently and to a greater extent in Islamic nations/societies.

 

 

You have any evidence for that statement?

 

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of FGM, stoning, preventing women from driving or throwing homosexuals of tall buildings either - but any suggestions that those phenomena have anything to do with Islamification are presumably "laughable"

 

 

And another thing we agree on! Yes, all of those things are bad. But (a) there's lots of Muslims who don't do them, and (b) there's lots of non-Muslims who *do* do them. What evidence do you have that those things are in any way associated with Islamification? Bearing in mind that correlation is not necessarily causation. I suggest that these kinds of backward attitudes and behaviours are more to do with people who choose to hold onto old beliefs and values as if they were in some way perfect and accurate, than with any particular religious affiliation.

 

I'm not a fan of Islam, simply because it is a religion, which inherently makes it a nutty thing, and a vehicle for prejudice, manipulation, extortion, and other bad things. And consequently I don't want Islamification of anywhere. But Islam is no worse than Christianity, Judaism, Shintoism, or any other religion that I know anything about. So Islamification is no worse than Christianisation (and perhaps a whole lot better, if you look into how e.g. South America was Christianised) or Judaification or any other religious expansion.

 

 


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  #1778481 9-May-2017 13:58
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frankv:

 

You have any evidence for that statement?

 

 

Again, sorry but I'm not going to search around for evidence of things which are blindingly obvious.  You may think that means you've proved me wrong and I'm fine with that


 
 
 
 


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  #1778485 9-May-2017 14:00
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  #1778516 9-May-2017 14:46
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shk292:

 

 

 

Again, sorry but I'm not going to search around for evidence of things which are blindingly obvious.  You may think that means you've proved me wrong and I'm fine with that

 

 

This kind of false argument is very dangerous and it is what keeps Trump in office. Either provide evidence for your assertions or don't make them. There is nothing at all 'blindingly obvious' about the excesses of Islamic societies. Yes, there are extremists. Yes, there are decapitations and suicide bombings and indiscriminate attacks. All of these things are hallmarks of Islamic State and Al Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups that claim to defend Islam.

 

So do they make it 'blindingly obvious' that 'those things seem to happen more frequently and to a greater extent in Islamic nations/societies'? Here are some examples of Christian atrocities, some historical, some recent, some listed by groups with an obvious axe to grind but still true nonetheless. This is a very partial result of a very quick Google search. There were far, far too many to list them all but this illustrates the point. In case you don't get it, the point is that intolerance, brutality and evil are not specific to any one religion, but are inherent to all of them. Hindus and Buddhists have also done their share of slaughtering recently, against Muslims as it happens. If it seems that this is mainly an Islamic thing, that has to do in large part with the bias of our western press. A Muslim terrorist running over people in France or Germany is a big deal that gets screamed from the headlines. The frequent killings of Muslims by soldiers of the west or backed by the west are rarely reported, and almost never in the headlines. Either prove the assertion you have made or retract it. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

 

http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/14/if-islam-is-a-religion-of-violence-so-is-christianity/

 

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

 

 

 

 




I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1778617 9-May-2017 17:19
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In other news, "Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, commonly known as Ahok, has been sentenced to two years in prison, after being found guilty of blasphemy in a trial seen as a test of Indonesia's religious tolerance." 

 

I'm not going to comment on the religion involved, nor am I going to offer any prizes for guessing which one it was


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  #1778626 9-May-2017 17:34
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Religion and the law is one of those things that exist in a rather odd place logically.

 

1) Is it presumptious of man to assume that he needs to enact laws to defend god? If you believe in god, it seems a distinct possibility he can look after himself

 

2) If you believe in god, how can you logically imprison someone for, say, murder if they believe god told them to do it? That places man's laws over god's, which seems incorrect in the context. How can you prove god did not tell them to do it - and if he did, how can it be wrong?

 

3) How do you manage to argue in support of man made laws that contravene what you believe to be the word of god? For example, the bible promotes a number of things (slavery, stoning, wife beating and so on) that we have made illegal. If the bible is the word of god, how can man impose different   rules and find that acceptable?

 

 

 

It's all so full of wonky logic and at the same time no logic that frankly I remain astonished that anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size believes a word of it. But that is just me.






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  #1778653 9-May-2017 18:19
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shk292:

 

In other news, "Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, commonly known as Ahok, has been sentenced to two years in prison, after being found guilty of blasphemy in a trial seen as a test of Indonesia's religious tolerance." 

 

I'm not going to comment on the religion involved, nor am I going to offer any prizes for guessing which one it was

 

 

Fanatic fundamentalism is the same regardless of the religion it attaches itself to. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/17/world/asia/india-muslims-modi.html?_r=0

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1778671 9-May-2017 18:58
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So it seems "god" needs the backup and help of one member of the Irish public to defend himself/herself? I would have thought he could handle that on his/her own? tongue-out


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  #1778675 9-May-2017 19:01
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octopoly:

 

So it seems "god" needs the backup and help of one member of the Irish public to defend himself/herself? I would have thought he could handle that on his/her own? tongue-out

 

 

 

 

Brain the size of a planet and all you want me to do is be offended by someone making a joke...

 

 

 

(After Marvin The Paranoid Android)






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  #1778926 10-May-2017 09:24
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shk292:

 

In other news, "Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, commonly known as Ahok, has been sentenced to two years in prison, after being found guilty of blasphemy in a trial seen as a test of Indonesia's religious tolerance." 

 

I'm not going to comment on the religion involved, nor am I going to offer any prizes for guessing which one it was

 

 

This was done to stop anyone who isn't Muslim from getting control of any government function in Indonesia. They have basically said that anyone who tries to get a Muslim to vote for a non Muslim is guilty of blasphemy.

 

Watch for the increase in persecution of woman and moderates in Islamic controlled countries as the current religious leaders try to stop the lessening of their power. Lots of people are going to be disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #1778957 10-May-2017 10:19
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Jas777:

 

shk292:

 

In other news, "Jakarta governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, commonly known as Ahok, has been sentenced to two years in prison, after being found guilty of blasphemy in a trial seen as a test of Indonesia's religious tolerance." 

 

I'm not going to comment on the religion involved, nor am I going to offer any prizes for guessing which one it was

 

 

This was done to stop anyone who isn't Muslim from getting control of any government function in Indonesia. They have basically said that anyone who tries to get a Muslim to vote for a non Muslim is guilty of blasphemy.

 

Watch for the increase in persecution of woman and moderates in Islamic controlled countries as the current religious leaders try to stop the lessening of their power. Lots of people are going to be disappeared.

 

Which is of course entirely due to them being Muslim, nothing to do with the whole feathering their own nest thing. Much like the notoriously Islamic states of Argentina, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Panama who disappeared thousands of their own people back several decades ago.


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  #1779288 10-May-2017 19:55
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In a court of law, how can it be proved that there is an entity that exists to blaspheme against?


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  #1781658 13-May-2017 14:41
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f

mugs2000:

 

In a court of law, how can it be proved that there is an entity that exists to blaspheme against?

 

 

Blasphemy generally is about a religion being offended/wanting to exert power - not the actual deity being offended.

 

If gods does exist I bet they find keenly religious people on the whole annoying. My mother used to call them god-botherers, which always struck a chord with me. It would be like being a rock star and having a bunch of ugly and obsessive fans constantly messaging you.

 

Last time I was in Vegas I saw a guy preaching on a street corner comparing Vegas to Sodom and Gomorrah and right next to them a guy in a Slayer t-shirt mock preaching the religion of Slayerism.

 

 





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  #1781659 13-May-2017 14:46
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MikeAqua:

 

It would be like being a rock star and having a bunch of ugly and obsessive fans constantly messaging you.

 

 

+1 for this.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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