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895 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1788598 26-May-2017 10:28
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scuwp: They always give with one hand and sneakily take away with the other. Net result is that most people won't notice any difference when the sun goes down each day.
  This. There is always something going up in a form of a hidden tax increase - EQC Levy, or ACC increases.


2998 posts

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  # 1788620 26-May-2017 11:14
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Geektastic:

 

Happy to pay for medical care from my money and make the choice as to which ones etc. provided the tax system leaves me with more of what I earn with which to do it. It's just a different political position.

 

 

Choice in hospital care in NZ is a misrepresentation. For many types of care, there is *no* choice in NZ; you can only get it done at a public hospital. And therefore private hospitals load some of what should be their costs onto the public system; if you have an operation in a private hospital and things go wrong (e.g. infection, an allergic reaction), you'll probably be admitted to a public hospital, at my expense (You're welcome), to fix it up.

 

Politically speaking, there is some benefit to you from me getting good health care (or education); I will remain with you in the ranks of taxpayers, rather than becoming a burden on the social welfare system. (Which of course leads to another discussion, which Peter Reader would roll his eyes at... I'm happy to not go there yet again).

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1788621 26-May-2017 11:20
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Geektastic:

 

frankv:

 

Geektastic:
dickytim:

 

This $20 a week should be used for schools and hospitals.

 



No. Why is my money better spent by people other than me?

 

Because you won't pay for schools or hospitals, which we all need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happy to pay for medical care from my money and make the choice as to which ones etc. provided the tax system leaves me with more of what I earn with which to do it. It's just a different political position.

 

Schools I am not really qualified to comment on. I have never set foot in a state funded school in my life and I have no children, so no skin in that game.

 

 

 

 

Yeah - works great - look at the USA.

 

Despite massive overall wealth, tens of millions can't afford healthcare, live in poverty, highest prison population per-capita in the world.
Now they've got Trump - if that's the eventual outcome - then no thanks.

 

That's despite a few charitable wealthy folk getting naming rights to the "Geektastic Wing" at the local hospital.

 

Outcome for NZ would be high streets in some areas full of oyster bars and pawn shops.   A bit like the impression I have of the way Auckland is already becoming.

 

 


1087 posts

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  # 1788623 26-May-2017 11:24
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Geektastic:
dickytim:

 

This $20 a week should be used for schools and hospitals.

 

 

 

Surely this would be of better benefit to everyone?

 

 

 

2,000,000 x 20 x 52 = 2,080,000,000

 



No. Why is my money better spent by people other than me?

More money should have been allocated to larger tax cuts.

 

 

 

Education is the enemy of poverty - N.Z. needs more 'free' education, not less.

 

'Free' healthcare is a safety net - a healthy population is a happy population that has greater earning/tax paying ability.

 

Besides, insurance is socialism by a different name and health-care insurance requires near 100% engagement for the young/healthy to subsidies old/unhealthy (unless you have a vigorous euthanasia program) so cut to the chase, avoid the burden of shareholder dividends, let the govt do it.

 

 

 

http://prospect.org/article/why-health-insurance-doesnt-work

 

Google it, private health insurance is extremely problematic from an economists, humanitarian & insurers point of view.

 

Edit: Adding link.

 

 


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  # 1788636 26-May-2017 11:28
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Maybe I missed it, but where can I find the details of the tax cuts that may affect me? I see things like "about $20 a week", but where can I find the details of how this is implemented?

 

EDIT: Oh, I see. Changed two of the thresholds. $14000 -> $22000 and $48000 -> $52000.


8213 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1788719 26-May-2017 13:09
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DjShadow:

 

How to buy an election on budget day.

 

 

No different from Labor promising the earth over the past few months if they get elected..





Regards,

Old3eyes


1199 posts

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  # 1788725 26-May-2017 13:21
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blackjack17:

There are countless things that need funding. It makes sense for the government to pay for it rather than individuals simple due to economies of scale.

 

True. But its not the government that is paying for it. Its us the tax payers. And you can only fund things when you have the money for them. It would be great to fund more and more. But at the end of the day its really not possible.

 

Government needs rich people and their taxes more than it needs the middle class. Socialist policies cannot survive without some form of capitalism. This is why we need incentives to "get rich". Thats exactly why national has lowered the tax on the higher earners too. More rich people, the more money there is to fund things

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1788727 26-May-2017 13:27
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Fred99:

 

Yeah - works great - look at the USA.

 

 

 

 

it actually quiet similar here in NZ. Forget healthcare for a sec, and think about life insurance.

 

These two should actually go hand in hand. In NZ yes you can survive without life insurance but who would be stupid enough to do that? Especially if you working and paying off a mortgage, and have family who are dependent on your income.

 

Besides. Our healthcare system in NZ is not really suitable. I have to top it up anyway because we not really covered very well. I would hate to get terminally ill here in NZ without my Southern Cross membership. Sure we covered for injuries/ACC etc.. But personally, I would much rather prefure to arrange my own cover for myself and family instead of relying on an over-utilized state system.

 

 


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  # 1788756 26-May-2017 14:08
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

Yeah - works great - look at the USA.

 

 

 

 

it actually quiet similar here in NZ. Forget healthcare for a sec, and think about life insurance.

 

These two should actually go hand in hand. In NZ yes you can survive without life insurance but who would be stupid enough to do that? Especially if you working and paying off a mortgage, and have family who are dependent on your income.

 

Besides. Our healthcare system in NZ is not really suitable. I have to top it up anyway because we not really covered very well. I would hate to get terminally ill here in NZ without my Southern Cross membership. Sure we covered for injuries/ACC etc.. But personally, I would much rather prefure to arrange my own cover for myself and family instead of relying on an over-utilized state system.

 

 

 

 

Rubbish to most of that.

 

The Commonwealth Fund would be a good place to start - if you're interested in learning.

 

Got to laugh at the comment : "I would hate to get terminally ill here in NZ without my Southern Cross membership".

 

If that's the way you think, then you've been sold a real pup. (Source : have cared for end of life patients with and without private health insurance).

 

 

 

 


605 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1788758 26-May-2017 14:10
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Geektastic:

 

$20 a week? I won't even notice.

 

 

 



That's the point. Suddenly your disposable income increases $20 per week. The government is hoping you go out and spend that $20. As many New Zealander's do this, aggregate demand will increase.

As for people saying it's just an election bribe, there's definitely an element of that. However, the main motivation is probably to stimulate the economy through expansionary fiscal policy.



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  # 1788762 26-May-2017 14:17
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Fred99:

 

[

 

Rubbish to most of that.

 

The Commonwealth Fund would be a good place to start - if you're interested in learning.

 

Got to laugh at the comment : "I would hate to get terminally ill here in NZ without my Southern Cross membership".

 

If that's the way you think, then you've been sold a real pup. (Source : have cared for end of life patients with and without private health insurance).

 

 

First hand experience. Its not what I think. Try seeing a specialist without it, need an MRI etc etc.

 

it could be the difference between life, and sitting on the bench waiting for treatment (death)

 

 


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  # 1788766 26-May-2017 14:21
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Wiggum:

 

 

 

Government needs rich people and their taxes more than it needs the middle class.

 

 

Absolute twaddle.

 

About 85% of total revenue from income tax is paid by people earning less than $150k, only about 15% from people earning over $150k.

 

(that data a few years ago from a treasury paper, but it won't have changed much)

 

"Rich people" might contribute more as a % of their income due to tax brackets. There are far fewer "rich people" around than many people seem to believe.

 

IIRC if you're earning >$150k, you're in the top 5% of wage/salary earners.  Could be a distorted view of that in this forum, as many work in IT, which on average is a highly paid industry.


1199 posts

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  # 1788768 26-May-2017 14:27
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Fred99:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Government needs rich people and their taxes more than it needs the middle class.

 

 

Absolute twaddle.

 

About 85% of total revenue from income tax is paid by people earning less than $150k, only about 15% from people earning over $150k.

 

(that data a few years ago from a treasury paper, but it won't have changed much)

 

"Rich people" might contribute more as a % of their income due to tax brackets. There are far fewer "rich people" around than many people seem to believe.

 

IIRC if you're earning >$150k, you're in the top 5% of wage/salary earners.  Could be a distorted view of that in this forum, as many work in IT, which on average is a highly paid industry.

 

 

You forgetting GST.


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  # 1788770 26-May-2017 14:31
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Government needs rich people and their taxes more than it needs the middle class.

 

 

Absolute twaddle.

 

About 85% of total revenue from income tax is paid by people earning less than $150k, only about 15% from people earning over $150k.

 

(that data a few years ago from a treasury paper, but it won't have changed much)

 

"Rich people" might contribute more as a % of their income due to tax brackets. There are far fewer "rich people" around than many people seem to believe.

 

IIRC if you're earning >$150k, you're in the top 5% of wage/salary earners.  Could be a distorted view of that in this forum, as many work in IT, which on average is a highly paid industry.

 

 

You forgetting GST.

 

 

You're forgetting that tax minimisation is a privilege mainly reserved for "the rich".


8807 posts

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  # 1788771 26-May-2017 14:32
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

[

 

Rubbish to most of that.

 

The Commonwealth Fund would be a good place to start - if you're interested in learning.

 

Got to laugh at the comment : "I would hate to get terminally ill here in NZ without my Southern Cross membership".

 

If that's the way you think, then you've been sold a real pup. (Source : have cared for end of life patients with and without private health insurance).

 

 

First hand experience. Its not what I think. 

 

 

You've died of a terminal disease?

 

NZ delivers in most cases and measured by most metrics, on average a higher quality of healthcare than the US system - at (less than) half the cost.

 

One example from that - hospital beds per 1,000 population, NZ = 6.1, US = 3.3.  

 

Anyway, I've got more important things to do than bicker with a hardline right winger pushing a failed agenda.

 

Goodbye.

 

 


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