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gzt

gzt
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  #1802889 18-Jun-2017 09:51
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Track of cargo ship. Is the U turn a malfunction or just maintaining manoeuvrability while adjusting arrival time?


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Fred99
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  #1802893 18-Jun-2017 10:01
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Warships tend to be painted colours to make them less visible, they probably don't have AIS transponders on at all times, they might not even be displaying lights.

 

Big question perhaps - if this is being reported accurately - is why did the container ship make a 180 deg U turn 20 minutes before the collision, then resume course?

 

The destroyer got a glancing blow - if it had been whacked amidships by the container ship at full-speed, it would have been cut in half.


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  #1802895 18-Jun-2017 10:02
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gzt: Track of cargo ship. Is the U turn a malfunction or just maintaining manoeuvrability while adjusting arrival time?

 

Guess that's something we'll find out in due course. The ship performed another similar manoeuvre slightly beyond where the track you've posted ends. This track is rapidly disappearing from the website now though.

 




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  #1802898 18-Jun-2017 10:04
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cadman:

Dratsab:


MikeB4: Ok what was the weather? what were their bearings? What were their speeds? What were their mechanical conditions? Who was on the bridges? Like I said virtually zero is known.


How is "virtually zero known" relevant at this stage? What's wrong with discussions which draw in information? Why do you assume it's not common knowledge ships are big and, in the scheme of things, not highly maneuverable? Why don't you like people discussing matters? Why do you constantly want to shut down threads? 



Open discussion and free exchange of thought is the enemy of propaganda.


Oh, and I nearly forgot to roll this out: Kia kaha. My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected by this tragedy.


Now, I better go change my Facebook avatar to whatever some other lemmings have used in order to show my support. I'm sure that helps.



A tad over reaction

Speculation on no verified evidence clouds the truth.

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  #1802900 18-Jun-2017 10:12
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MikeB4: Speculation on no verified evidence clouds the truth.

 

Only one person has proffered any speculation so far, and that was after you started up. Mostly, everyone else seems to have a natural curiosity as to what's occurred. Information around the occurrence is starting to get posted, as one would expect. Is there an issue with this?


gzt

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  #1802901 18-Jun-2017 10:13
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cadman:

Dratsab:


MikeB4: Ok what was the weather? what were their bearings? What were their speeds? What were their mechanical conditions? Who was on the bridges? Like I said virtually zero is known.


How is "virtually zero known" relevant at this stage? What's wrong with discussions which draw in information? Why do you assume it's not common knowledge ships are big and, in the scheme of things, not highly maneuverable? Why don't you like people discussing matters? Why do you constantly want to shut down threads? 



Open discussion and free exchange of thought is the enemy of propaganda.


Oh, and I nearly forgot to roll this out: Kia kaha. My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected by this tragedy.


Now, I better go change my Facebook avatar to whatever some other lemmings have used in order to show my support. I'm sure that helps.


Some of this strikes me as ad hominim and does not relate to anything said in this topic.

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  #1802903 18-Jun-2017 10:16
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Dratsab:

MikeB4: Speculation on no verified evidence clouds the truth.


Only one person has proffered any speculation so far, and that was after you started up. Mostly, everyone else seems to have a natural curiosity as to what's occurred. Information around the occurrence is starting to get posted, as one would expect. Is there an issue with this?



Really? Read again . From the very first post...."Even if the container ship was in the wrong the destroyer should have been able to avoid it I mean come on, going to be some red faces in the Navy over this one."

Before as you put I started up.



gzt

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  #1802904 18-Jun-2017 10:18
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Dratsab:

gzt: Track of cargo ship. Is the U turn a malfunction or just maintaining manoeuvrability while adjusting arrival time?


Guess that's something we'll find out in due course. The ship performed another similar manoeuvre slightly beyond where the track you've posted ends. This track is rapidly disappearing from the website now though.



The one I posted claims to be the location of the collision.The unusually sharp turn above might be evidence of that. Looks like a full stop and turn

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  #1802907 18-Jun-2017 10:26
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MikeB4:

 

Dratsab:

 

MikeB4: Speculation on no verified evidence clouds the truth.

 

Only one person has proffered any speculation so far, and that was after you started up. Mostly, everyone else seems to have a natural curiosity as to what's occurred. Information around the occurrence is starting to get posted, as one would expect. Is there an issue with this? 



Really? Read again . From the very first post...."Even if the container ship was in the wrong the destroyer should have been able to avoid it I mean come on, going to be some red faces in the Navy over this one."

 

That's an opinion as to what should have happened, certainly not speculation over cause. If speculation does run up rigging, the question then becomes "so what"? Speculation is another natural human instinct. It may be off beam but it can also introduce angles of thought other people may not necessarily have had otherwise. It certainly won't "cloud the truth" here as verifiable information will continue to be posted as it comes to light. Speculation at an investigative level can be problematic, but we're exceptionally far removed from that.

 

Back on course...

 

Edit: Mike's quotes added for clarity due to intervening post.


cadman
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  #1802912 18-Jun-2017 10:40
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gzt:
cadman:

 

Dratsab:

 

 

 

MikeB4: Ok what was the weather? what were their bearings? What were their speeds? What were their mechanical conditions? Who was on the bridges? Like I said virtually zero is known.

 

 

 

How is "virtually zero known" relevant at this stage? What's wrong with discussions which draw in information? Why do you assume it's not common knowledge ships are big and, in the scheme of things, not highly maneuverable? Why don't you like people discussing matters? Why do you constantly want to shut down threads? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Open discussion and free exchange of thought is the enemy of propaganda.

 

 

 

Oh, and I nearly forgot to roll this out: Kia kaha. My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected by this tragedy.

 

 

 

Now, I better go change my Facebook avatar to whatever some other lemmings have used in order to show my support. I'm sure that helps.

 


Some of this strikes me as ad hominim and does not relate to anything said in this topic.

 

It strikes me as simply an expression of an accurate observation of a certain poster's proclivity towards not engaging in the topic at hand and instead posting only to attempt to dissuade others from sharing their independent thoughts.


Stu

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  #1802915 18-Jun-2017 10:53
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Please stop attacking each other folks. Stick to the topic at hand please, or this will be a rather short discussion. 

 

Cheers and thanks!





It’s not that I’m agoraphobic, it’s just not safe to go out anymore.

 

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

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  #1802916 18-Jun-2017 10:55
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What always got me when sailing was no matter how fast or slow and tight one turns the area of sea covered is surprisingly large. It is the same when stopping.

  #1802918 18-Jun-2017 10:58
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Dratsab:

 

MikeB4:

 

Dratsab:

 

MikeB4: Speculation on no verified evidence clouds the truth.

 

Only one person has proffered any speculation so far, and that was after you started up. Mostly, everyone else seems to have a natural curiosity as to what's occurred. Information around the occurrence is starting to get posted, as one would expect. Is there an issue with this? 



Really? Read again . From the very first post...."Even if the container ship was in the wrong the destroyer should have been able to avoid it I mean come on, going to be some red faces in the Navy over this one."

 

That's an opinion as to what should have happened, certainly not speculation over cause. If speculation does run up rigging, the question then becomes "so what"? Speculation is another natural human instinct. It may be off beam but it can also introduce angles of thought other people may not necessarily have had otherwise. It certainly won't "cloud the truth" here as verifiable information will continue to be posted as it comes to light. Speculation at an investigative level can be problematic, but we're exceptionally far removed from that.

 

Back on course...

 

Edit: Mike's quotes added for clarity due to intervening post.

 

 

yup that was just my opinion , I have spent 20 years at sea and seen a lot of near misses in my life time, You have a destroyer that is bristling with nav and radar tech. I could imagine there was at least 5 if not more people on the bridge of the destroyer but there would have been far less on the cargo ship. Either way I would have thought they could have out maneuvered a cargo ship that's what they do a lot of training for in their war games isn't it ??





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  #1802921 18-Jun-2017 11:35
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Stu:

 

Please stop attacking each other folks. Stick to the topic at hand please, or this will be a rather short discussion. 

 

Cheers and thanks!

 

 

BAM!





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


  #1802944 18-Jun-2017 13:01
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Fred99:

 

Warships tend to be painted colours to make them less visible, they probably don't have AIS transponders on at all times, they might not even be displaying lights.

 

Big question perhaps - if this is being reported accurately - is why did the container ship make a 180 deg U turn 20 minutes before the collision, then resume course?

 

The destroyer got a glancing blow - if it had been whacked amidships by the container ship at full-speed, it would have been cut in half.

 

 

probably the most accurate post here so far in terms of what the  circumstances would have been like out there

 

Mspec:

 

 

 

yup that was just my opinion , I have spent 20 years at sea and seen a lot of near misses in my life time, You have a destroyer that is bristling with nav and radar tech. I could imagine there was at least 5 if not more people on the bridge of the destroyer but there would have been far less on the cargo ship. Either way I would have thought they could have out maneuvered a cargo ship that's what they do a lot of training for in their war games isn't it ??

 

 

couple of points on that. just because one has radars and nav tech doesn't mean one uses it all the time. the Americans like to roll round with EMCON (Emission Control) restrictions meaning they may have just been listening to others communications and radar signals, rather than transmitting their own. this is common through out navies around the world. maybe not so much in higher traffic zones but common none the less.

 

5 people on the bridge in the middle of the night maybe not, could have been as low as 2, if someone was off doing rounds, or in the toilet a standard bridge watch of 3 or 4 can drop down to 2 etc.

 

given it was a high traffic zone there would have been a lot of different lights out there, and the US ship may not have had its lights on as you sometimes do being a warship. also the colour scheme of war ships mean they tend to be pretty damn hard to see in the day time, let alone at night.

 

manoeuvring has nothing to do with it especially if you dont see something in the first place

 

 


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