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  Reply # 1841849 9-Aug-2017 13:51
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frednz:

 

Rikkitic:

 

shk292:

 

MikeB4:

 

It's not about taking things away, it's about doing things differently in a responsible, sustainable way. 

 

 

I disagree - the "visions" presented for future transport and lifestyles would remove a great deal of the personal freedom currently enjoyed by NZers, especially those who follow a lifestyle different to the urban masses.  This may or may not happen - but we mustn't be fooled into thinking that all of the changes will be positive, or that nobody will care about this loss of freedom and individuality.

 

 

This is true, but there is another side. The other side is people so selfish and self-obsessed that they are not prepared to give up any of their perceived 'freedom' for the sake of future survivability and will grimly cling to the wheel of their V8 SUV as they drive themselves and the rest of the world into the hell of a dead and devastated planet.

 

Of course that vision is also wrong. It is not all one or the other. But people who keep shouting that they are not prepared to make any kind of change whatsoever because they insist on the 'freedom' to continue doing everything exactly the same way they and their grandparents always have, are not helping things. The way forward is to make small compromises and gradual changes. Things don't stay the same. You don't have to either.

 

 

 

 

I agree we all need to do adapt to change and do the things that are best for the planet. But, here's the thing, new residents and petrol cars, for example, are pouring into the country at such a fast rate that they are making our efforts to control greenhouse gas emissions more difficult by the day.

 

For example, about 380,000 vehicles have been added to our roads during the last 2 years. How many of these are electric vehicles - perhaps 3,000 at most.

 

So, even if 20,000 people bought EVs during the next year (unlikely), these will be completely bombed out by 150,000 (or more) petrol vehicles being added to our roads.

 

I suppose the flow of petrol vehicles into NZ will eventually slow down, but electric vehicles are now so expensive and have such limited range that we are going to be importing a lot more petrol vehicles than EVs for years to come!

 

And think of the emissions created by 70,000 new immigrants each year! Our situation is simply spiralling (almost out of control) because of the amazing economic growth of this fair country of ours!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Immigration is a good thing. We just need to have the housing and traffic infrastructure for them. Oh yeah. Best to manage our affairs year on year instead of when its already got out of control. We are already on a 10 year catchup with these two items


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  Reply # 1841851 9-Aug-2017 13:53
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Oh, I'm pretty sure we are all going nuts, but not all of us know it! :-)

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1841853 9-Aug-2017 13:56
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Chatting to my builder this morning. He's based in Pukekohe but the poor bugger's found himself swinging a hammer at something on the North shore! I think he leaves home at about 05:30. He mentioned there's something like 65,000 more dwellings expected in Manukau city in the next few years!

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1841855 9-Aug-2017 14:07
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frednz:

 

And think of the emissions created by 70,000 new immigrants each year! Our situation is simply spiralling (almost out of control) because of the amazing economic growth of this fair country of ours!

 

 

I thought this was a global problem - does it really make any difference if Johnny migrant emits in India/UK/China or emits in NZ?


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  Reply # 1841865 9-Aug-2017 14:14
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Agreed, but the congestion is imported,


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  Reply # 1841868 9-Aug-2017 14:20
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Rikkitic:

 

This is true, but there is another side. The other side is people so selfish and self-obsessed that they are not prepared to give up any of their perceived 'freedom' for the sake of future survivability and will grimly cling to the wheel of their V8 SUV as they drive themselves and the rest of the world into the hell of a dead and devastated planet.

 

Of course that vision is also wrong. It is not all one or the other. But people who keep shouting that they are not prepared to make any kind of change whatsoever because they insist on the 'freedom' to continue doing everything exactly the same way they and their grandparents always have, are not helping things. The way forward is to make small compromises and gradual changes. Things don't stay the same. You don't have to either.

 

 

 

Agreed - although this is at odds with some of the statements that have been made on this and other threads such as "no private ICE vehicles by 2040(?)" and "your kids won't learn to drive an ICE vehicle".

 

We need to do our bit - but I can think of a dozen use cases off the top of my head where shared transport as a service doesn't work for me, and would represent a significant deprivation of freedom.  I can easily see myself having an EV as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle in the family within the next few years.  I've already moved to a more economical car for my daily commute.  My boat uses less than 100 litres of diesel in a typical year.  But I don't envisage giving up a private vehicle in my lifetime


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  Reply # 1841872 9-Aug-2017 14:26
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By the time the ICE age is brought to an end alternative technology will have matured and folks will look back with amusement at the obsession with such a dirty and frankly horrible system. A positive way to look at it, the more EV's that hit the road and the less petrol is used the longer petrol will be available for collector cars.  





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1841880 9-Aug-2017 14:56
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MikeB4:

 

By the time the ICE age is brought to an end alternative technology will have matured and folks will look back with amusement at the obsession with such a dirty and frankly horrible system. A positive way to look at it, the more EV's that hit the road and the less petrol is used the longer petrol will be available for collector cars.  

 

 

Yep, ICE is awfully inefficient with vast amounts of energy being converted to waste heat, and the oil money pouring into and propping up despotic regimes is frightening. I personally won't be sad to see the end of it as a transport mainstay.

 

Just think of the silence too.

 

 


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  Reply # 1841887 9-Aug-2017 15:08
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I wonder if in another dimension ICE was being developed now would it get approval? I feel it would be considered too greater risk and would be canned.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1842975 9-Aug-2017 17:35
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I don't like the acronym 'ICE', it is way too cool for those old fashioned cars.  I prefer 'FFB' - Fossil Fuel Burner.

 

We are already seeing countries setting target dates for no new FFB cars being sold, so far it is from 2025 to 2040.  I will make this prediction: the countries that say they will ban sales of new FFB cars by 2040 will at least consider bring that date forward when other countries have no problems caused by the same sort of ban by 2030.  I don't think many countries will join Norway in banning FFB cars by 2025, because that is a bit soon, but I don't think it will be very hard to stop the sale of FFB cars by 2030.

 

With all the countries that wont import and sell FFB cars by 2040 (at the latest) there will be a quickly shrinking market and many manufacturers will have already quit production of FFB cars before that date.  I expect a large number of car manufacturers (including some very big ones) to decide to cease making FFB cars at some point between 2025 & 2030.


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  Reply # 1842983 9-Aug-2017 18:34
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Given the number of very cheap cars required to keep NZers mobile (apparently) it will be very interesting to see just how electric vehicles will penetrate the market.






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  Reply # 1843020 9-Aug-2017 19:58
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eat up all the cows and leave the veges alone to mop up the CO2


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  Reply # 1843065 9-Aug-2017 21:19
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Geektastic:

 

Given the number of very cheap cars required to keep NZers mobile (apparently) it will be very interesting to see just how electric vehicles will penetrate the market.

 

 

I guess the average car is a 60l tank? Thats circa $120. I think EV's have a 15kW battery pack. 15 x .23 is less than $4. Or at a free charger station. Range is less though

 

 

 

120 vs 4   120 vs 4  120 vs 0 and so on. 

 

Show me the money. TM Deal Or No Deal


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  Reply # 1843067 9-Aug-2017 21:23
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Geektastic:

 

Given the number of very cheap cars required to keep NZers mobile (apparently) it will be very interesting to see just how electric vehicles will penetrate the market.

 

 

Bell Curve. When the prices drop a little and I suspect the 2nd hand EV's would drop a LOT early on, that's the upswing.

 

Better EV arrives, the hyped (and rightly so) EV owners upgrade, take a hit, but they bleed good but 2nd hand EV's onto the market. When you are filling your fuel atfor $5 or free, thats a nice motivator.

 

Good for stalking or getaways too 


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  Reply # 1843145 10-Aug-2017 06:20
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tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

Given the number of very cheap cars required to keep NZers mobile (apparently) it will be very interesting to see just how electric vehicles will penetrate the market.

 

 

I guess the average car is a 60l tank? Thats circa $120. I think EV's have a 15kW battery pack. 15 x .23 is less than $4. Or at a free charger station. Range is less though

 

 

 

120 vs 4   120 vs 4  120 vs 0 and so on. 

 

Show me the money. TM Deal Or No Deal

 

 

Until the EV users need to pay their fair share for the road network they use, then the equation changes somewhat. I also don't think all of the electricity charges are present here, and a 15kw battery may not use 15kw to charge.

 

There is obviously a saving, or is there and if we say 120 x 52 = 6,240 vs 4 x 52= 208 then an EV needs to cost $6000 a year less than an ICE to make financial sense. Lets say a car has a 5 year life span then we have need the EV to only cost 30,000 more than the equivalent ICE. The math is now starting to fall apart.

 

Edit: Forgot that EV will eventually need to pay RUC. $62 per 1000km this further changes the proposition, in short EV need to come down in price significantly to be viable and competitive.





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