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  #1845090 11-Aug-2017 12:07
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BTR:

 

Long story short my employer is reviewing my departments salaries at our request. They have said they would approach other businesses in the sector to get an idea of what others are paying their staff.

 

 

 

Now one of my staff went and did the same thing using their contacts but I have been told they shouldn't have done that and left it up to management "as it makes things more difficult now"

 

 

 

Is it just me of does this sound like a complete load of rubbish? What is wrong with people doing their own research into salaries provided they are doing it professionally using contacts they have in the same field?

 

 

Checking salaries elsewhere in the sector can just result in being bidded down. Best way to "check" is to actually get a higher-paying job....and leave. That's the only sort of salary benchmark most employers have any respect for. If you *can't* get a better salary anywhere else.....you're doing as well as you can right now.....

IT wages have been flatlined for 20 years since mainframes were replaced by smaller, cheaper systems (and self-maintaining packages) and networks enabled outsourcing....and immigration enabled cheap, temporary labour.

 

Market forces are never allowed to operate at the macro level if it means wages go up. The government - especially National - always change the rules so wages stay flat and there is a ready pool of people looking for work to keep wages down.

That's how it's been since the early 80s. I'm always surprised when people impacted directly by it vote for them. "D'oh!"  





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  #1845095 11-Aug-2017 12:17
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BTR:

 

I have a feeling that management are wanting to get the lowest figure possible and someone doing their own research and coming back with legitimate higher figures puts a spanner in their plan. 

 

 

Been there... management (who had previously had a policy of paying above-average wages) did a review and found that the average was higher than they wanted to pay. So they changed their policy to be that their median would be the same as the industry median for companies in similar circumstances (size, location).

 

Naturally, the first question asked was how the median compared to the average. So it became clear to all that the company was intent on paying below-average wages, which went down like a cup of cold sick.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1845371 11-Aug-2017 20:24
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I don't get a salary. The less I pay my staff, the more profit I get for myself. The more I pay my staff, the more profit I get, to retain for myself.




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  #1846636 14-Aug-2017 19:33
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This market is tough from a management perspective in terms of the affordability of salary raises. (I know boo hoo - poor management :p)

 

And what I mean is - individuals that move can (depending on specific skill sets and how hard the market is competing for those skills) command bumps of 20 to 30%. And while many businesses can potentially afford this for one off hires - not many, if any (!!), businesses can afford to do this across the board for all of their employees, without serious implications for costs and competitiveness in the market.

 

So this reality sets up a dilemma for both the employee and employer - and quite simply if we as an employer can't match the salary offer an employee has in hand - or perhaps look at other benefits e.g. leave/study allowances - share options - flexible working - specific personal development/project opportunities and other benefits etc - then it may well be in the employees best interest to leave.

 

 

 

So yeah....what to do?

 

As others have said:

 

1. Know your worth - or rather the worth of your role in the market (+ your own performance/potential in said role) - and do this via your peers in the market / remuneration surveys (if they exist) / employment agents (warning they may exaggerate your worth to get you on their books).

 

2. See what the employer/management comes back with.

 

3. Assess whether the total package (incl $ + benefits + opportunity to develop and grow + work environment + culture etc) meets your needs, or not.

 

4. Negotiate if it doesn't measure up.

 

5. Decide.

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #1846638 14-Aug-2017 19:41
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If inflation is so low at the moment, I can't see how businesses can afford the give people these big salary rises.

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  #1846644 14-Aug-2017 19:53
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gehenna:

 

No-one has a right to define what someone talks to an industry peer about, so long as it's not against a policy agreed by the employee.  Management is naive if they think their people aren't doing their own research.  They also don't need to go out to other business to see what they're paying, when there are independent reports across industries that do just that.

 

 

 

 

Agree, very easy to find - the absoluteIT report to be pretty accurate (based on the small sample size I know to compare against).

 

https://www.absoluteit.co.nz/industry-reports/

 

 


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  #1846708 14-Aug-2017 21:31
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mattwnz: If inflation is so low at the moment, I can't see how businesses can afford the give people these big salary rises.

 

Yeah depending on the size of the business, you can potentially absorb a few high increases - especially if the individuals are worth it. However for smaller companies yeah this would be really tough.  And often you only have so much to go around e.g. if you've only got 3% to work with for salary increases - you need 2 x 0% - so one person can get 9% - which is not a great option either.

 

 This option creates other issues too:

 

     

  1. Affordability can sometimes be tough, as the question then becomes "Are our clients/projects able to pay this much for them?" Yes/No/Maybe? 
  2. One option if you have new employees on higher salaries is to perhaps have no/minimal review for 1st year or maybe more - so they can hopefully prove their worth and to hopefully allow existing staff salaries to catch up a bit. 
  3. These higher salaries also create parity issues for existing staff as well i.e. newbies potentially getting more than existing staff for similar roles/exp - which also sucks - especially if the existing staff member is a proven star

 

 

 

So yeah making decisions re salary reviews/levels is never easy...

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1846757 14-Aug-2017 22:53
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Geektastic:

 

Sounds like a tactical error.

 

 

 

Wait for management to produce results THEN provide data to challenge.

 

 

I've learnt something today!





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1846789 15-Aug-2017 06:33
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Coil:

 

Information is power as stated above but maybe in this case they don't want to be comparing different roles with the same expectation.

 

 

Seems like as a country we are doing this right now...


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  #1846790 15-Aug-2017 06:39
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Linuxluver:

 

BTR:

 

Long story short my employer is reviewing my departments salaries at our request. They have said they would approach other businesses in the sector to get an idea of what others are paying their staff.

 

 

 

Now one of my staff went and did the same thing using their contacts but I have been told they shouldn't have done that and left it up to management "as it makes things more difficult now"

 

 

 

Is it just me of does this sound like a complete load of rubbish? What is wrong with people doing their own research into salaries provided they are doing it professionally using contacts they have in the same field?

 

 

Checking salaries elsewhere in the sector can just result in being bidded down. Best way to "check" is to actually get a higher-paying job....and leave. That's the only sort of salary benchmark most employers have any respect for. If you *can't* get a better salary anywhere else.....you're doing as well as you can right now.....

IT wages have been flatlined for 20 years since mainframes were replaced by smaller, cheaper systems (and self-maintaining packages) and networks enabled outsourcing....and immigration enabled cheap, temporary labour.

 

Market forces are never allowed to operate at the macro level if it means wages go up. The government - especially National - always change the rules so wages stay flat and there is a ready pool of people looking for work to keep wages down.

That's how it's been since the early 80s. I'm always surprised when people impacted directly by it vote for them. "D'oh!"  

 

 

So its been that way since the 80's... so Labour did nothing to change it during their time in office, hardly a National problem is it?


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  #1846795 15-Aug-2017 07:08
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mattwnz: If inflation is so low at the moment, I can't see how businesses can afford the give people these big salary rises.


If inflation is so low at the moment, how come house prices and food and the cost of living has sky rocketed?


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  #1846811 15-Aug-2017 07:56
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Coil:

 

mattwnz: If inflation is so low at the moment, I can't see how businesses can afford the give people these big salary rises.


If inflation is so low at the moment, how come house prices and food and the cost of living has sky rocketed?

 

 

I can answer this . 

 

House prices are not included in the inflation figures. Maybe house rental is, but not house prices. 

 

And, food/cost of living has not skyrocketed.  Food prices have increased 3% in the last year, according to stats NZ.   And, that could be partly due to a really really bad planting season for items such as kumara and avocado.  

 

As for cost of living, I think things are cheaper. TV's always seem to get cheaper, petrol has fallen from several years back, and air travel prices are at levels never seen before. (i just booked a trip to the USA for 5 people for $4000). 

 

The one product that annoys me are power prices - they are in a relentless upswing and the benefits of the competitive market have never been seen by consumers, only by board members and CEO's. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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