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  Reply # 1845322 11-Aug-2017 18:24
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Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.


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  Reply # 1845340 11-Aug-2017 19:13
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dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1845365 11-Aug-2017 20:16
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mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.

 

 

 

 

Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.


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  Reply # 1845370 11-Aug-2017 20:23
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dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

 

 

 

There is 30+ years of research to show light damages milk and that these bottles prevent that from occurring. There is also plenty of evidence to show lipid oxidation occurs in milk after exposure to UV light which reduces vitamin A content and changes the flavour profile.

 

Consumer did not say they offer no benefit over other bottles - they said the milk doesn't offer any nutritional benefits over other brands of milk.

 

So who's right? That's a very good question. 30+ years of lab research vs one consumer NZ test? 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1845375 11-Aug-2017 20:40
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I buy the aussie made home brand UHT milk for home use. I find its the best of the lot and I really CBF going out regulary to get milk, whereas the UHT keeps on the shelf fine from my monthly shops. As a bonus I am not contributing to crapping in NZ rivers by giving money to fontera. Let the aussies rivers get ruined.





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  Reply # 1845403 11-Aug-2017 21:44
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I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.





gml


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  Reply # 1845425 11-Aug-2017 22:16
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Pumpedd:

mattwnz:


dafman:


Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.


Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!


Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!


It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.



 


We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.



 


Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.



Because water is free like air. Also unlike minerals water is virtually unlimited. The cost is transporting it to a user, minerals are finite. Whereas water in a particular location is regenerating

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  Reply # 1845455 12-Aug-2017 01:50
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mattwnz:

 

cadman:

 

mattwnz:
Permeate isn't milk though, I believe it is a byproduct of processed milk products. Eg if you put runny homemade yogurt in a fine cloth to sieve it to make the yogurt more solid,, the yellow liquid that comes out I believe is permeate, which you then normally throw out. People supposedly want a standardised taste all the year round, so that is why it is added in.

 

Permeate isn't a by-product - it's simply part of the milk in the first place that is separated with ultrafiltration. Your analogy is false - in NZ we use milk permeate to standardise milk - not permeate from milk products. You only discard the filtered homemade yogurt permeate because you are just making yogurt not because there's anything actually wrong with it.

 

 

 

 

This article says it is a 'by-product' https://www.endeavour.edu.au/wellspring-blog/nutrition/the-real-story-behind-permeate-free-milk

 

 

 

What is milk permeate?

 

Permeate is a by-product of dairy foods produced in the making of whey protein concentrate, cream and cheese. It consists of lactose (milk sugar), vitamins and minerals. It is often added to milk to standardise its nutritional composition and taste, which naturally fluctuates with the seasons.

 

 

 

Milk Cheese, Yogurt etc is all essentially just milk with no other additives, it all comes down to processing. If they are making it from milk directly, then wouldn't the  milk solids would be the primary product and the permeate would be the by-product?  I don't think is is a bad thing that it is added, and also reduced waste. Also maybe milk is cheaper as a result?

 

 

It's not a by-product because it already exists within the milk. If anything that can be extracted from something else is a by-product, then the milk in the bottle is itself a by-product, as is the cream, as is the whey (you see where I'm going with this...) and the term becomes entirely meaningless as everything is a by-product.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1845456 12-Aug-2017 01:53
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mattwnz:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Permeate is filtered out, along with anything else that doesn't pass through.

 

 

So what are the products that are produced? Is it Milk solids, which are the premium product, and by-product is the permeate? Or is it the other way around.

 

 

Neither are by-products. They are simply different parts of the original mixture.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1845457 12-Aug-2017 01:55
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kryptonjohn:

 

Permeate is filtered out, along with anything else that doesn't pass through.

 

 

Actually, permeate passes through the membrane filter. The retentate is retained by it.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1845496 12-Aug-2017 10:14
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mattwnz:
Pumpedd:

 

mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.

 

 

Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.

 



Because water is free like air. Also unlike minerals water is virtually unlimited. The cost is transporting it to a user, minerals are finite. Whereas water in a particular location is regenerating

 

I can still breathe the air ... but I can't swim in our rivers.


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  Reply # 1845503 12-Aug-2017 10:21
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Permeate:

 

from Ultra filtration of milk passes through a filter.  A confusion of semantics is arising regarding the difference with a coffee filter and a UHF milk filter.  With milk there is nothing to discard like used coffee grinds.

 

However.  Milk permeate is seasonally available in great abundance such that its use is akin to disposal.  Fed back to cows, fermented to alcohol, spread onto pasture and of course used to make standard milk.  Often this standardizing generates surplus cream that can be sold for greater profit or used to make other products for greater return.  Tax deductible advertising costs are vigorously utilized to B.S. the masses along the way.

 

I will suggest that throughout the milking season every stage of milk production from cows udder to your fridge is detrimental to natures design for the growth of strong hooves.  Being able to pay and extortionate premium for a light proof bottle is just great for some people.  Just let them.  We can reserve judgement on the charlatans that promote any of it as of benefit to us.

 

 


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  Reply # 1845508 12-Aug-2017 10:50
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mdav056:

 

I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.

 

 

Are you sure it's not simply the fact it's fresher?

 

Some pretty scientific blind testing does show people are able to identify milk as tasting different in dark bottles vs milk that's been exposed to UV light.


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  Reply # 1847040 15-Aug-2017 14:02
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dafman:

 

still breathe the air ... but I can't swim in our rivers.

 

 

Harden up, man! We waterski all the time in the mighty but dirty Waikato River at the dirty end - Tuakau.

 

All the kids are into it and aren't scared off by the murky river water. But they know to keep their gobs shut when they crash off the skis.

 

We also take the boat down to the other end of the river at Broadlands Forest. The water there is clear as gin, straight out of Taupo and reasonably pristine.

 

It sure would be nice if it was like that at Tuakau. But they could end dairying and it would still be murky because of deforestation and general erosion run-off.

 

 


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  Reply # 1847045 15-Aug-2017 14:07
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sbiddle:

 

mdav056:

 

I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.

 

 

Are you sure it's not simply the fact it's fresher?

 

Some pretty scientific blind testing does show people are able to identify milk as tasting different in dark bottles vs milk that's been exposed to UV light.

 

 

Precisely.  Different, not better!  Unless, of course, you like a plasticky taste...





gml


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