Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
2314 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1081

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1845322 11-Aug-2017 18:24
2 people support this post
Send private message

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.


14118 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1795


  Reply # 1845340 11-Aug-2017 19:13
One person supports this post
Send private message

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.


1690 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 817


  Reply # 1845365 11-Aug-2017 20:16
One person supports this post
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.

 

 

 

 

Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.


26631 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6129

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1845370 11-Aug-2017 20:23
One person supports this post
Send private message

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

 

 

 

There is 30+ years of research to show light damages milk and that these bottles prevent that from occurring. There is also plenty of evidence to show lipid oxidation occurs in milk after exposure to UV light which reduces vitamin A content and changes the flavour profile.

 

Consumer did not say they offer no benefit over other bottles - they said the milk doesn't offer any nutritional benefits over other brands of milk.

 

So who's right? That's a very good question. 30+ years of lab research vs one consumer NZ test? 

 

 

 

 


21236 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4273

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1845375 11-Aug-2017 20:40
Send private message

I buy the aussie made home brand UHT milk for home use. I find its the best of the lot and I really CBF going out regulary to get milk, whereas the UHT keeps on the shelf fine from my monthly shops. As a bonus I am not contributing to crapping in NZ rivers by giving money to fontera. Let the aussies rivers get ruined.





Richard rich.ms

303 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 57

Subscriber

  Reply # 1845403 11-Aug-2017 21:44
Send private message

I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.





gml


14118 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1795


  Reply # 1845425 11-Aug-2017 22:16
2 people support this post
Send private message

Pumpedd:

mattwnz:


dafman:


Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.


Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!


Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!


It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.



 


We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.



 


Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.



Because water is free like air. Also unlike minerals water is virtually unlimited. The cost is transporting it to a user, minerals are finite. Whereas water in a particular location is regenerating

1019 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 572
Inactive user


  Reply # 1845455 12-Aug-2017 01:50
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

cadman:

 

mattwnz:
Permeate isn't milk though, I believe it is a byproduct of processed milk products. Eg if you put runny homemade yogurt in a fine cloth to sieve it to make the yogurt more solid,, the yellow liquid that comes out I believe is permeate, which you then normally throw out. People supposedly want a standardised taste all the year round, so that is why it is added in.

 

Permeate isn't a by-product - it's simply part of the milk in the first place that is separated with ultrafiltration. Your analogy is false - in NZ we use milk permeate to standardise milk - not permeate from milk products. You only discard the filtered homemade yogurt permeate because you are just making yogurt not because there's anything actually wrong with it.

 

 

 

 

This article says it is a 'by-product' https://www.endeavour.edu.au/wellspring-blog/nutrition/the-real-story-behind-permeate-free-milk

 

 

 

What is milk permeate?

 

Permeate is a by-product of dairy foods produced in the making of whey protein concentrate, cream and cheese. It consists of lactose (milk sugar), vitamins and minerals. It is often added to milk to standardise its nutritional composition and taste, which naturally fluctuates with the seasons.

 

 

 

Milk Cheese, Yogurt etc is all essentially just milk with no other additives, it all comes down to processing. If they are making it from milk directly, then wouldn't the  milk solids would be the primary product and the permeate would be the by-product?  I don't think is is a bad thing that it is added, and also reduced waste. Also maybe milk is cheaper as a result?

 

 

It's not a by-product because it already exists within the milk. If anything that can be extracted from something else is a by-product, then the milk in the bottle is itself a by-product, as is the cream, as is the whey (you see where I'm going with this...) and the term becomes entirely meaningless as everything is a by-product.


1019 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 572
Inactive user


  Reply # 1845456 12-Aug-2017 01:53
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Permeate is filtered out, along with anything else that doesn't pass through.

 

 

So what are the products that are produced? Is it Milk solids, which are the premium product, and by-product is the permeate? Or is it the other way around.

 

 

Neither are by-products. They are simply different parts of the original mixture.


1019 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 572
Inactive user


  Reply # 1845457 12-Aug-2017 01:55
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

Permeate is filtered out, along with anything else that doesn't pass through.

 

 

Actually, permeate passes through the membrane filter. The retentate is retained by it.


2314 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1081

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1845496 12-Aug-2017 10:14
One person supports this post
Send private message

mattwnz:
Pumpedd:

 

mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

Just on TV one now, Consumer NZ says milk from light proof bottles has no nutritional benefit over other bottles.

 

Yet, a Fonterra spin doctor fronts up and says they reckon it's worth charging consumers a premium for!

 

Dairy is wrecking our environment and killing our waterways (honest opinion) ... and now Fonterra are using marketing spin to ramp up the price of milk for the consumer!

 

It's time for change! Let's start charging them a little for their massive water use to begin with.

 

 

We don't want to start charging for actual water use, as it should be free for all NZers. Also it will be end users (eg consumers) who are ultimately paying if they get taxed for water use.  But I believe wate  should be charged  on a per litre basis, if that was is exported out of NZ. There should be a royalty involved, which would be easy to administer.

 

 

Why should water be any different to gravel or even minerals....where royalties are paid.

 



Because water is free like air. Also unlike minerals water is virtually unlimited. The cost is transporting it to a user, minerals are finite. Whereas water in a particular location is regenerating

 

I can still breathe the air ... but I can't swim in our rivers.


44 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 1845503 12-Aug-2017 10:21
Send private message

Permeate:

 

from Ultra filtration of milk passes through a filter.  A confusion of semantics is arising regarding the difference with a coffee filter and a UHF milk filter.  With milk there is nothing to discard like used coffee grinds.

 

However.  Milk permeate is seasonally available in great abundance such that its use is akin to disposal.  Fed back to cows, fermented to alcohol, spread onto pasture and of course used to make standard milk.  Often this standardizing generates surplus cream that can be sold for greater profit or used to make other products for greater return.  Tax deductible advertising costs are vigorously utilized to B.S. the masses along the way.

 

I will suggest that throughout the milking season every stage of milk production from cows udder to your fridge is detrimental to natures design for the growth of strong hooves.  Being able to pay and extortionate premium for a light proof bottle is just great for some people.  Just let them.  We can reserve judgement on the charlatans that promote any of it as of benefit to us.

 

 


26631 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6129

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1845508 12-Aug-2017 10:50
One person supports this post
Send private message

mdav056:

 

I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.

 

 

Are you sure it's not simply the fact it's fresher?

 

Some pretty scientific blind testing does show people are able to identify milk as tasting different in dark bottles vs milk that's been exposed to UV light.


2164 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 841

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1847040 15-Aug-2017 14:02
Send private message

dafman:

 

still breathe the air ... but I can't swim in our rivers.

 

 

Harden up, man! We waterski all the time in the mighty but dirty Waikato River at the dirty end - Tuakau.

 

All the kids are into it and aren't scared off by the murky river water. But they know to keep their gobs shut when they crash off the skis.

 

We also take the boat down to the other end of the river at Broadlands Forest. The water there is clear as gin, straight out of Taupo and reasonably pristine.

 

It sure would be nice if it was like that at Tuakau. But they could end dairying and it would still be murky because of deforestation and general erosion run-off.

 

 


303 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 57

Subscriber

  Reply # 1847045 15-Aug-2017 14:07
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

mdav056:

 

I think the taste of Fonterra's milk changed when they started using opaque bottles -- I can taste the plastic or something.  So, I never buy it now, much prefer the generic (and much cheaper) stuff.

 

 

Are you sure it's not simply the fact it's fresher?

 

Some pretty scientific blind testing does show people are able to identify milk as tasting different in dark bottles vs milk that's been exposed to UV light.

 

 

Precisely.  Different, not better!  Unless, of course, you like a plasticky taste...





gml


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service
Posted 20-Jul-2018 11:29


Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central launches
Posted 10-Jul-2018 10:40


Spark completes first milestone in voice platform upgrade
Posted 10-Jul-2018 09:36


Microsoft ices heated developers
Posted 6-Jul-2018 20:16


PB Technologies charged for its extended warranties and warned for bait advertising
Posted 3-Jul-2018 15:45


Almost 20,000 people claim credits from Spark
Posted 29-Jun-2018 10:40


Cove sells NZ's first insurance policy via chatbot
Posted 25-Jun-2018 10:04


N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.