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SJB

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  Reply # 1862666 12-Sep-2017 10:12
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We screw up the planet wherever we go and that is not going to change any time soon.

 

Agent Smith got it right - we are a virus.


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  Reply # 1862695 12-Sep-2017 10:27
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Haven't watched this, but I have some inside perspective on the way some reporters work. 

 

My sister is in the 'industry' and has taken a stance on various subjects, such as rugby players are bad, NZ is a dirty polluted hell hole, many large companies cover up cancer causing operations. 

 

And, she will try and 'discover' stories that could be spun to support her views. 

 

Not saying this is the case with this particular aljazeera doco. But keep in mind that there are a lot of kiwis working for aljazeera. And, lets just say, not many of them would be national voters. 

 

Just be very wary of how stories can be misrepresented and throwaway soundbites taken out of context and turned into major conspiracy plot points.   Need to apply critical thinking skills and not accept stories at face value. Maybe it is true, maybe not. 

 

 


Glurp
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  Reply # 1862697 12-Sep-2017 10:31
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Sure, and stories can also be the result of independent research by dedicated, serious investigators. I live in Hawke's Bay and have closely followed the dam fiasco from the beginning. I would say the Al Jazeera documentary is spot on.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1862704 12-Sep-2017 10:43
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surfisup1000:

 

Haven't watched this, but I have some inside perspective on the way some reporters work. 

 

My sister is in the 'industry' and has taken a stance on various subjects, such as rugby players are bad, NZ is a dirty polluted hell hole, many large companies cover up cancer causing operations. 

 

And, she will try and 'discover' stories that could be spun to support her views. 

 

Not saying this is the case with this particular aljazeera doco. But keep in mind that there are a lot of kiwis working for aljazeera. And, lets just say, not many of them would be national voters. 

 

Just be very wary of how stories can be misrepresented and throwaway soundbites taken out of context and turned into major conspiracy plot points.   Need to apply critical thinking skills and not accept stories at face value. Maybe it is true, maybe not. 

 

 

 

Rikkitic:

 

Sure, and stories can also be the result of independent research by dedicated, serious investigators. I live in Hawke's Bay and have closely followed the dam fiasco from the beginning. I would say the Al Jazeera documentary is spot on.

 

 

 

Hence the widespread media scepticism.  I don't know who to believe and what to believe anymore whenever I read or watch something these days.





Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. (T.S. Eliot)


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  Reply # 1862778 12-Sep-2017 13:10
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:

It would be interesting to see how European nations manage to have dairying and clean(er) rivers.


 


I used to work for one of the large water and sewage companies in the UK and I recall one of the engineers saying that they could actually take the discharge water from the sewage plant and use it as intake water for the water treatment plant, but the public perception would be that they could not, so they discharged the sewage plant water into the river and sucked it out a mile or two downstream to treat and put into supply.


I suspect that part of the NZ problem is the fact that there is no national water system and no national rivers protection authority. With every council paddling it's own canoe as far as water etc goes it is not really a recipe for the application of universal standards and methods across NZ.



It does not take much research to reveal that the UK and Europe is not better if not worse.


The difference is that when it occurs, fines are meaningful as in this recent instance:

"One of Britain's biggest water companies was handed a record 20 million pound ($25 million) fine on Wednesday for pumping sewage into the River Thames, killing wildlife and spreading sickness among livestock and people."





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  Reply # 1862779 12-Sep-2017 13:10
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Rikkitic:

Sure, and stories can also be the result of independent research by dedicated, serious investigators. I live in Hawke's Bay and have closely followed the dam fiasco from the beginning. I would say the Al Jazeera documentary is spot on.


 



Fair enough but you also need to be careful of affirmatI've bias too.

From what I have heard this dam is being built for farmers and financed by ratepayers... Doesn't seem fair.

I know a fresh water ecologist who is fairly critical of water quality in some rivers. I'd trust him over some doco.




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  Reply # 1862845 12-Sep-2017 14:19
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Fred99:

 

Embedded links:

 

 

Part 1 now "private". That's annoying.


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  Reply # 1862851 12-Sep-2017 14:29
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That's what AirNZ should play during taxi, first part before take off and second after landing.





helping others at dev.icqz.net

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  Reply # 1862919 12-Sep-2017 15:49
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GeekGuy:

I use to go fishing for kawhai  where the Ngaruroro River & Tukituki River met the ocean at Awatoto and Haumoana 30 years ago..


I dont think I could ever do that again.


Last time I looked at the Karamu Stream at Clive I was disgusted on how bad it looked.



There are still plenty of people fishing the mouths of both rivers.

The Karamu stream, which is called the Clive river at Clive, is a waterway that has changed from any natural system. The Clive river used to be the mouth of the Ngararoro river but the Ngararoro was diverted to a more direct route to the sea as a result of a big flood and a decision to engineer a better path to the sea.

As a result, the Clive river is only fed by a couple of streams and various stormwater sources. It is difficult to say if the condition is due to pollution or is mainly the result of the mouth being a relatively stagnant flow now.

It has to be remembered that most of our modern rivers are heavily engineered to prevent flooding and allow for agriculture and urban development and this was done a long time ago. If you take the Tuki Tuki and Ngararoro rivers in Hawkes Bay, for example, they have been confined within stop-banks and flood control since at least the 1950s. If they weren't controlled they would keep changing course whenever there were big floods.

As a result, these rivers now have a shingle base to the sea (the Ngararoro is not quite to the sea but it won't be long).
This has meant the rivers are flat and slow instead of deep and fast and the whole natural basis of them has changed.

We could let these rivers return to a natural state but it would be incompatible with agriculture, infrastructure and urban life in these areas.





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