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  Reply # 1896594 7-Nov-2017 09:39
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frankv:

 

 

 

Maybe we should look at making limestone or something like that? Of course, increasingly acidic rain and oceans will make that increasingly difficult.

 

 

The ocean will not become acidic.  It will remain alkaline, but calcium carbonate will become more soluble.





Mike

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  Reply # 1896629 7-Nov-2017 09:53
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SaltyNZ:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

Maybe we should look at making limestone or something like that? Of course, increasingly acidic rain and oceans will make that increasingly difficult.

 

 

Despite the potential difficulty with some of the CO2 returning to the atmosphere when a tree decomposes, wood is still by far the least energy intensive way of locking that carbon back down. Sucking air into giant machines to pull out the CO2 directly and do something with it would take massive amounts of power. Power which could be put to much better use elsewhere.

 

 

Trees are very efficient.  No need to reinvent the wheel.  The trouble is forests eventually plateau at stable level of C02 sequestration.  As you keep pumping CO2 out you have to keep planting more land in trees to suck it up.  So you need more and more land.  Ultimately you displace production into jurisdictions that aren't bothering to sequester carbon at all. 

 

Another issue is how cheap carbon credits are - now an international 'junk-bond'.

 

If I was an NZ emitter it may be cheaper to buy credits offshore than plant trees in NZ.  If I can comply with future legislation more cheaply by doing that, then it's the rationale course of action.

 

Of course nothing we do in NZ will make a jot of difference to the global situation.  But we will no-doubt feel better preenign on the moral high ground.





Mike

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1896661 7-Nov-2017 10:32
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So some more (scanty) detail here in an article on Shane Jones.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98491546/shane-jones--minister-of-trees

 

He is holding a pine tree and talking about jobs for 'ne'er do well' youths, by resorting to 'work for the dole' if necessary.  He refers to many of those youths having drug dependency problems. 

 

I think he has some major challenges.  The first of which will be the drug issue.  Most forestry employers require drug testing.

 

http://fridayoffcuts.com/dsp_article.cfm?id=294&aid=2416

 

A second issue is enforcing work for the dole.  He acknowledges his coalition partners don't have that policy.

 

Not clues where the trees will be planted.  But it sounds like they will be able to be harvested. He talks about the 'turbo-charged' forestry industry providing timber for the govt home building program.

 

My between the lines synthesis of all that: -

 

- The gulf between Jones's bluster and the governments eventual policy is unclear;

 

- The government will subsidise/fund planting of new areas of forestry.  This will increases the standing stock of NZ production forests.  The trees will be able to be harvested;

 

- A possible risk is some sort of substitution effect.  If the government is planting trees flat out for a decade, the private sector may elect not to scale back privately funded plantings for fear of creating an oversupply.  Or their may not be sufficient planting capacity to meet private and public demand;

 

- Jones expects the house building program to increase domestic demand for timber.  He presumably hopes this will ensure longer term that there isn't an oversupply of timber.  But ... the govt housing is supposed to be built over 10 years, whereas the govt funded trees will be harvested in ~20 years;

 

- It's possible govt planting will be directed to marginally economic land or small lots.  Some plantings like that never get thinned, pruned or harvested.  That is good for carbon sequestration, but bad for employment after planting.

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1897213 7-Nov-2017 22:59
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There was also some talk about planting of conservation forests; was that wishful thinking or have they identified some areas where planting can be done (that wouldn't have otherwise been planted at all)?





Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 1897417 8-Nov-2017 10:52
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MikeAqua:

 

 

 

How many hours per day to achieve that?

 

 

Maybe 5-6 hours out of an 8 hour day. The areas we planted were usually pretty remote, well out of town.

A van would pick us up at daylight. Maybe an hour or so travel to reach the site, touch up spades, set up planting bags.

We'd plant until the trailer full of trees ran out - maybe early afternoon - then head back to town.

This was a long time ago during my 'starving student' days, the money seemed OK at the time.
We were paid per tree, and could work longer/harder to earn more, but the time spent travelling out to the site and back wasn't trivial.



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  Reply # 1897458 8-Nov-2017 11:31
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Sidestep:

 

MikeAqua:

 

 

 

How many hours per day to achieve that?

 

 

Maybe 5-6 hours out of an 8 hour day. The areas we planted were usually pretty remote, well out of town.

A van would pick us up at daylight. Maybe an hour or so travel to reach the site, touch up spades, set up planting bags.

We'd plant until the trailer full of trees ran out - maybe early afternoon - then head back to town.

This was a long time ago during my 'starving student' days, the money seemed OK at the time.
We were paid per tree, and could work longer/harder to earn more, but the time spent travelling out to the site and back wasn't trivial.


 

 

Faster than me.  Would take me 8 hours of planting (10 hour day) to achieve the same.  I was unpaid though, it was just farm work.





Mike

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