Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
14673 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1889330 25-Oct-2017 15:05
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:


This is a great idea and needed. If done right it could and should replace the Dairying.



I think it's a nice, idealistic idea but completely impractical and unrealistic.


There's nobody around willing to do the planting for a start. Northland has a shortage of forestry workers despite high unemployment.


The government can't magic up a supply of workers but it could import them. Oh, now they can't.


Then you need the land...


 



Regional unemployment still exists in quite high numbers and given this is a regional scheme finding labourwont be too difficult.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1889337 25-Oct-2017 15:11
Send private message

@MikeB4:

 

Northland has a shortage of forestry workers already and high unemployment.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11849533

 

"A global demand for logs and competition for workers in primary industries have left Northland with an acute shortage of labourers in the forestry sector- a situation that may delay planting and harvesting of trees."

 

The unemployed in Northland can't or won't do this work. Are you saying they should be forced to do it?

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


8278 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #1889339 25-Oct-2017 15:13
One person supports this post
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

@MikeB4:

 

Northland has a shortage of forestry workers already and high unemployment.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11849533

 

"A global demand for logs and competition for workers in primary industries have left Northland with an acute shortage of labourers in the forestry sector- a situation that may delay planting and harvesting of trees."

 

The unemployed in Northland can't or won't do this work. Are you saying they should be forced to do it? 

 

 

If they want to keep their benefit,  then yes..





Regards,

Old3eyes


5212 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1889346 25-Oct-2017 15:27
Send private message

old3eyes:

 

 

 

If they want to keep their benefit,  then yes..

 

 

 

 

I gotta say, it's *really* hard to disagree with this. The country needs work done, you don't have a job so the country gives you money to live. Expecting you to add a little value in return is not really unfair at all.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


3143 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1889356 25-Oct-2017 15:41
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

networkn:

 

Maybe we could get some of our unemployed and less dangerous criminals involved in it? Maybe some of our misguided youth?

 

 

There's already a shortage of forestry workers in Northland*, which happens to have the highest unemployment in NZ. So those unemployed and prisoners would presumably have to be forced to do this which I think is a good idea but most others would call it slavery and they have a point.

 

* Part of the reason for this is the mandatory drug testing requirement. 

 

 

Or perhaps the Koreans could pay enough so that there is a queue of people wanting forestry jobs in Northland. And a bunch of prisoners behaving extra good so that they can get early release to go and get one of those jobs. This, after all, is how the market is supposed to work.

 

 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1889362 25-Oct-2017 15:47
Send private message

@frankv

 

If they can make a return on investment then common sense says they would pay more and if it's not profitable common sense says they won't.

 

FWIW foresty workers get paid about mid $30Ks for trainees and experienced workers $50k+

 

That's not bad pay isn't it?


3003 posts

Uber Geek


  #1889365 25-Oct-2017 15:54
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

@frankv

 

If they can make a return on investment then common sense says they would pay more and if it's not profitable common sense says they won't.

 

FWIW foresty workers get paid about mid $30Ks for trainees and experienced workers $50k+

 

That's not bad pay isn't it?

 

 

it is probably one of the most dangerous jobs you can do , you couldnt pay me enough to do it. You dont want people out there who dont want to be there

 

 





Common sense is not as common as you think.


 
 
 
 


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1889366 25-Oct-2017 15:56
Send private message

Good point. And the danger is directly related to training and supervision. If they take on a bunch of trainees to plant this billion trees, who's going to train and supervise them?

 

Mind you it's the forest management and harvesting that is the really dangerous part. The planting not so much.

 

 

 

 


3003 posts

Uber Geek


  #1889369 25-Oct-2017 16:02
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

Good point. And the danger is directly related to training and supervision. If they take on a bunch of trainees to plant this billion trees, who's going to train and supervise them?

 

Mind you it's the forest management and harvesting that is the really dangerous part. The planting not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are right about that , it will be 25-35 years, if they are radiata pine, before they need harvesting





Common sense is not as common as you think.


1150 posts

Uber Geek


  #1889377 25-Oct-2017 16:11
Send private message

kryptonjohn:

 

networkn:

 

Maybe we could get some of our unemployed and less dangerous criminals involved in it? Maybe some of our misguided youth?

 

 

 

 There's already a shortage of forestry workers in Northland*, which happens to have the highest unemployment in NZ. So those unemployed and prisoners would presumably have to be forced to do this which I think is a good idea but most others would call it slavery and they have a point.

 

* Part of the reason for this is the mandatory drug testing requirement. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately User-pay's put paid to using people who owed a debt to society for anything constructive.

 

Remember the PD scheme where naught boys would go clean out culverts and drains on the side of the road? Well once User-pays came along that was seen to deprive Fulton Hogan etc of business. User pays also coincided with an increase of road wash-outs because the net result was less maintenance on drains and ditches.


2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1889378 25-Oct-2017 16:12
Send private message

Maybe but in this example it's not hurting businesses who couldn't do the work anyway.




1298 posts

Uber Geek


  #1889395 25-Oct-2017 16:47
Send private message

Maybe we shouldn't be felling so many trees and this would mean we wouldn't need to plant so many new ones. I realise this wouldn't help our exports and the timber supplies for building new houses but at least it would make NZ greener straight away instead of waiting for all those new trees to mature.

This certainly wouldn't be popular under a National Government but now that the Green Party has some power perhaps this idea should be explored?




654 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1889440 25-Oct-2017 17:32
Send private message

frednz:

 

NZ has set itself a target of planting 100 million trees per year in a "Billion Trees" planting programme.

 

Now that means we need to plant about 274,000 trees per day, every day of the year.

 

Do you think this is possible when you consider ground preparation and the availability of such a large number of trees?

 

How many people would you need to have continuously working on this project?

 

Source: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936301

 

Forestry
Re-establish the New Zealand Forestry Service, and planting 100 million trees per year in a Billion Trees Planting Programme.

 

 

 



Simple calculator maths:

 

274,000 trees / 5000 workers = 54.80 trees a day per worker.

With my limited knowledge of forestry and tree planting in New Zealand, I'd still say having to plant 55 trees a day wouldn't be a hard job at all. 
However, my limited understanding is that one tree planter can/do plant something like 30+ seedlings an hour/240 a day/1,200 week/62,400 year.

If we have 5,000 workers planting trees, (20,000+ work in Forestry) they could plant 312,000,000 trees per year. Over the proposed 10 years, that would be 3,120,000,000.

Some facts about forestry in New Zealand:

 

New Zealand is a small player in the international forestry industry, contributing only 1.1% of the world's total supply of industrial wood and 1.3% of the world's trade in forest products.

 

However, forestry is a significant industry in New Zealand. It contributes

 

  • an annual gross income of around $5 billion
  • 3% of New Zealand's GDP
  • directly employs around 20,000 people.

Wood products are New Zealand's third largest export earner – behind dairy and meat.
http://www.mpi.govt.nz/news-and-resources/open-data-and-forecasting/forestry

 



 


654 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1889442 25-Oct-2017 17:44
One person supports this post
Send private message

frednz:

 

hio77: 274k a day?...

Is this based off seeds dropped rather than actual growing trees planted?

 

Good question - perhaps this web site may help in understanding the best ways to grow trees from seeds.

 

It will be most interesting to see how this project is planned to be done and just where it's planned to grow these trees.

 

At a first glance, the project blows the mind, but perhaps it's all been well planned and is perfectly feasible?

 



Well, as politicians just hate having their facts and figures disputed, let alone being proved wrong (11 billion budget hole, anyone?) I'd say it's feasible...

 

 


654 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1889467 25-Oct-2017 17:49
Send private message

JimmyH:

 

We could..... if it was enough of a priority that we wanted to throw sufficient money, people and land at the problem.

 

But more materially, where is the government going to plant a billion trees, at what cost, and why?

 

Last time we had a forestry service doing this it was a disaster. Uneconomic plantations in silly places for political reasons, and it lost a fortune.

 

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

 



It's hardly a disaster:

 

New Zealand is a small player in the international forestry industry, contributing only 1.1% of the world's total supply of industrial wood and 1.3% of the world's trade in forest products.

 

However, forestry is a significant industry in New Zealand. It contributes

 

  • an annual gross income of around $5 billion
  • 3% of New Zealand's GDP
  • directly employs around 20,000 people.

Wood products are New Zealand's third largest export earner – behind dairy and meat.

 

MPI figures.

 

 

 

 


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Vodafone mobile data plans with unlimited data
Posted 26-Feb-2020 06:55


Vodafone launches innovation initiatives to help businesses use 5G
Posted 26-Feb-2020 05:00


Ultimate Ears HYPERBOOM brings massive sound and extreme bass
Posted 25-Feb-2020 09:00


Withings launches three new devices to help monitor heart health from home
Posted 13-Feb-2020 20:05


Auckland start-up Yourcar matches new car buyers with dealerships
Posted 13-Feb-2020 18:05


School gardens go high tech to teach kids the importance of technology
Posted 13-Feb-2020 11:10


Malwarebytes finds Mac threats outpace Windows for the first time
Posted 13-Feb-2020 08:01


Amazon launches Echo Show 8 in Australia and New Zealand
Posted 8-Feb-2020 20:36


Vodafone New Zealand starts two year partnership with LetsPlay.Live
Posted 28-Jan-2020 11:24


Ring launches indoor-only security camera
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:26


New report findings will help schools implement the digital technologies curriculum content
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:25


N4L to upgrade & support wireless internet inside schools
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:22


Netflix releases 21 Studio Ghibli works
Posted 22-Jan-2020 11:42


Vodafone integrates eSIM into device and wearable roadmap
Posted 17-Jan-2020 09:45


Do you need this camera app? Group investigates privacy implications
Posted 16-Jan-2020 03:30



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.