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  Reply # 1889330 25-Oct-2017 15:05
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kryptonjohn:

MikeB4:


This is a great idea and needed. If done right it could and should replace the Dairying.



I think it's a nice, idealistic idea but completely impractical and unrealistic.


There's nobody around willing to do the planting for a start. Northland has a shortage of forestry workers despite high unemployment.


The government can't magic up a supply of workers but it could import them. Oh, now they can't.


Then you need the land...


 



Regional unemployment still exists in quite high numbers and given this is a regional scheme finding labourwont be too difficult.




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 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

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  Reply # 1889337 25-Oct-2017 15:11
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@MikeB4:

 

Northland has a shortage of forestry workers already and high unemployment.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11849533

 

"A global demand for logs and competition for workers in primary industries have left Northland with an acute shortage of labourers in the forestry sector- a situation that may delay planting and harvesting of trees."

 

The unemployed in Northland can't or won't do this work. Are you saying they should be forced to do it?

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1889339 25-Oct-2017 15:13
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kryptonjohn:

 

@MikeB4:

 

Northland has a shortage of forestry workers already and high unemployment.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11849533

 

"A global demand for logs and competition for workers in primary industries have left Northland with an acute shortage of labourers in the forestry sector- a situation that may delay planting and harvesting of trees."

 

The unemployed in Northland can't or won't do this work. Are you saying they should be forced to do it? 

 

 

If they want to keep their benefit,  then yes..





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  Reply # 1889346 25-Oct-2017 15:27
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old3eyes:

 

 

 

If they want to keep their benefit,  then yes..

 

 

 

 

I gotta say, it's *really* hard to disagree with this. The country needs work done, you don't have a job so the country gives you money to live. Expecting you to add a little value in return is not really unfair at all.





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  Reply # 1889356 25-Oct-2017 15:41
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kryptonjohn:

 

networkn:

 

Maybe we could get some of our unemployed and less dangerous criminals involved in it? Maybe some of our misguided youth?

 

 

There's already a shortage of forestry workers in Northland*, which happens to have the highest unemployment in NZ. So those unemployed and prisoners would presumably have to be forced to do this which I think is a good idea but most others would call it slavery and they have a point.

 

* Part of the reason for this is the mandatory drug testing requirement. 

 

 

Or perhaps the Koreans could pay enough so that there is a queue of people wanting forestry jobs in Northland. And a bunch of prisoners behaving extra good so that they can get early release to go and get one of those jobs. This, after all, is how the market is supposed to work.

 

 


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  Reply # 1889362 25-Oct-2017 15:47
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@frankv

 

If they can make a return on investment then common sense says they would pay more and if it's not profitable common sense says they won't.

 

FWIW foresty workers get paid about mid $30Ks for trainees and experienced workers $50k+

 

That's not bad pay isn't it?


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  Reply # 1889365 25-Oct-2017 15:54
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kryptonjohn:

 

@frankv

 

If they can make a return on investment then common sense says they would pay more and if it's not profitable common sense says they won't.

 

FWIW foresty workers get paid about mid $30Ks for trainees and experienced workers $50k+

 

That's not bad pay isn't it?

 

 

it is probably one of the most dangerous jobs you can do , you couldnt pay me enough to do it. You dont want people out there who dont want to be there

 

 





Common sense is not as common as you think.


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  Reply # 1889366 25-Oct-2017 15:56
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Good point. And the danger is directly related to training and supervision. If they take on a bunch of trainees to plant this billion trees, who's going to train and supervise them?

 

Mind you it's the forest management and harvesting that is the really dangerous part. The planting not so much.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1889369 25-Oct-2017 16:02
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kryptonjohn:

 

Good point. And the danger is directly related to training and supervision. If they take on a bunch of trainees to plant this billion trees, who's going to train and supervise them?

 

Mind you it's the forest management and harvesting that is the really dangerous part. The planting not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are right about that , it will be 25-35 years, if they are radiata pine, before they need harvesting





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  Reply # 1889377 25-Oct-2017 16:11
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kryptonjohn:

 

networkn:

 

Maybe we could get some of our unemployed and less dangerous criminals involved in it? Maybe some of our misguided youth?

 

 

 

 There's already a shortage of forestry workers in Northland*, which happens to have the highest unemployment in NZ. So those unemployed and prisoners would presumably have to be forced to do this which I think is a good idea but most others would call it slavery and they have a point.

 

* Part of the reason for this is the mandatory drug testing requirement. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately User-pay's put paid to using people who owed a debt to society for anything constructive.

 

Remember the PD scheme where naught boys would go clean out culverts and drains on the side of the road? Well once User-pays came along that was seen to deprive Fulton Hogan etc of business. User pays also coincided with an increase of road wash-outs because the net result was less maintenance on drains and ditches.


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  Reply # 1889378 25-Oct-2017 16:12
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Maybe but in this example it's not hurting businesses who couldn't do the work anyway.




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  Reply # 1889395 25-Oct-2017 16:47
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Maybe we shouldn't be felling so many trees and this would mean we wouldn't need to plant so many new ones. I realise this wouldn't help our exports and the timber supplies for building new houses but at least it would make NZ greener straight away instead of waiting for all those new trees to mature.

This certainly wouldn't be popular under a National Government but now that the Green Party has some power perhaps this idea should be explored?




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  Reply # 1889440 25-Oct-2017 17:32
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frednz:

 

NZ has set itself a target of planting 100 million trees per year in a "Billion Trees" planting programme.

 

Now that means we need to plant about 274,000 trees per day, every day of the year.

 

Do you think this is possible when you consider ground preparation and the availability of such a large number of trees?

 

How many people would you need to have continuously working on this project?

 

Source: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936301

 

Forestry
Re-establish the New Zealand Forestry Service, and planting 100 million trees per year in a Billion Trees Planting Programme.

 

 

 



Simple calculator maths:

 

274,000 trees / 5000 workers = 54.80 trees a day per worker.

With my limited knowledge of forestry and tree planting in New Zealand, I'd still say having to plant 55 trees a day wouldn't be a hard job at all. 
However, my limited understanding is that one tree planter can/do plant something like 30+ seedlings an hour/240 a day/1,200 week/62,400 year.

If we have 5,000 workers planting trees, (20,000+ work in Forestry) they could plant 312,000,000 trees per year. Over the proposed 10 years, that would be 3,120,000,000.

Some facts about forestry in New Zealand:

 

New Zealand is a small player in the international forestry industry, contributing only 1.1% of the world's total supply of industrial wood and 1.3% of the world's trade in forest products.

 

However, forestry is a significant industry in New Zealand. It contributes

 

  • an annual gross income of around $5 billion
  • 3% of New Zealand's GDP
  • directly employs around 20,000 people.

Wood products are New Zealand's third largest export earner – behind dairy and meat.
http://www.mpi.govt.nz/news-and-resources/open-data-and-forecasting/forestry

 



 


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  Reply # 1889442 25-Oct-2017 17:44
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frednz:

 

hio77: 274k a day?...

Is this based off seeds dropped rather than actual growing trees planted?

 

Good question - perhaps this web site may help in understanding the best ways to grow trees from seeds.

 

It will be most interesting to see how this project is planned to be done and just where it's planned to grow these trees.

 

At a first glance, the project blows the mind, but perhaps it's all been well planned and is perfectly feasible?

 



Well, as politicians just hate having their facts and figures disputed, let alone being proved wrong (11 billion budget hole, anyone?) I'd say it's feasible...

 

 


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  Reply # 1889467 25-Oct-2017 17:49
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JimmyH:

 

We could..... if it was enough of a priority that we wanted to throw sufficient money, people and land at the problem.

 

But more materially, where is the government going to plant a billion trees, at what cost, and why?

 

Last time we had a forestry service doing this it was a disaster. Uneconomic plantations in silly places for political reasons, and it lost a fortune.

 

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

 



It's hardly a disaster:

 

New Zealand is a small player in the international forestry industry, contributing only 1.1% of the world's total supply of industrial wood and 1.3% of the world's trade in forest products.

 

However, forestry is a significant industry in New Zealand. It contributes

 

  • an annual gross income of around $5 billion
  • 3% of New Zealand's GDP
  • directly employs around 20,000 people.

Wood products are New Zealand's third largest export earner – behind dairy and meat.

 

MPI figures.

 

 

 

 


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