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10754 posts

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  Reply # 1903907 19-Nov-2017 08:08
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Aredwood:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Exempting some food from GST is about basics. Milk, meat, veggies, fruit, not $50 steaks or Twisties. I see your point, but lets be sensible. Basics.

 

 

Food prices on lots of items vary by far more than 15%. So retailers will definitely just increase their prices to take advantage of the now lacking GST on some foods.

 

A whole list of regulations will have to be written defining what foods are GST free, how much they can be processed by until they then have to be sold with GST etc. Meat - say beef, Is T bone steak going to be subject to GST, but rump and chuck steak GST free? A definition of each type would have to be written into law. Potatoes - presumably raw potatoes will be GST free, and potato chips will have GST. Is cutting a potato into pieces enough for it to be liable for GST? Should mashed potato also be liable? If not, how small can I chop the pieces of potato before I then have mashed potato? Can the potatoes be pre cooked? Vegetables - If chopped and combined to make a simple salad - GST free or not? What about the salad dressing?

 

Tax inspectors would need to raid restaurants to find out if they are mis declaring their meat and vegetables. If Im buying food items for business purposes, Or even paying for a restaurant meal as a business expense, I will have to find out how much GST has already been paid, So I can correctly calculate how much GST I would need to pay.

 

Should rich people be given cheaper food? As they are more likely to be able to afford Organic, raw, whole foods. So rich people could well end up benefiting more from some food items being made GST free. And they can definitely afford to pay for accountants and lawyers to make sure that they would pay the least amount of GST.

 

 

Fair points, restaurant foods I hadn't considered. 

 

My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

1. Raw meat, veggies, fruit, some dairy, with a line in the sand for partly processed.

 

2, Restaurant foods that are cooked from raw, no GST charged to public. As the vast majority of the meal are non GST items

 

3. Macca's, KFC etc are charged as based on processed component and high salt are not healthy, so thats easy. Yes, they buy chicken etc and do not get charged GST, but they charge to the public.  

 

 

 

Re rich people pay less, well they do now. Rich person pays the same GST as a poor person for kale. Same $ but a massive different % on PDI.

 

The only way to make it really fair is to charge GST on a persons income basis, less GST for the poor , more for the rich, so the average GST revenue is unchanged but thats clearly not workable. GST free healthy food is a slight improvement. Home cooked meal is cheaper, Macca's is a bit more expensive, thats fine by me


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  Reply # 1903908 19-Nov-2017 08:10
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Shame we can't apply the same flat rate to income tax...

 

 

Very easy

 

The poor pay less % the rich pay more, so easy to find the rate that gives the Govt the same revenue. What that will do though is reduce tax paid for the rich and increase on the poor. 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1903974 19-Nov-2017 11:35
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tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1903977 19-Nov-2017 11:47
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tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

Maybe they could just have a s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ honesty box system for those hell bent on virtue signalling via giving yet more of their hard earned to the government to buy the votes of those too lazy to work.

 

 

Unsure what this topic has to do with hard earned, government, buying votes, lazy to work.

 

 

For what purpose is tax collected?





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1903978 19-Nov-2017 11:50
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cadman:

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.


It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

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  Reply # 1903979 19-Nov-2017 11:52
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tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Unless they are a charity, yes. Will also negatively affect restaurants that claim back part of the purchase cost as their cost price will go up, so sell price will go up.





Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1903980 19-Nov-2017 11:53
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tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Shame we can't apply the same flat rate to income tax...

 

 

Very easy

 

The poor pay less % the rich pay more, so easy to find the rate that gives the Govt the same revenue. What that will do though is reduce tax paid for the rich and increase on the poor. 

 

 

 

 

Easier method.

 

You can deduct the first $40,000 as a basic living allowance and pay a 50% flat rate above that.


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  Reply # 1903982 19-Nov-2017 11:58
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richms:

 

tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Unless they are a charity, yes. Will also negatively affect restaurants that claim back part of the purchase cost as their cost price will go up, so sell price will go up.

 

 

There isn't a need to recover GST paid on purchase of the raw materials as that is now GST free. The net cost is the same. When they sell the meals, they have the same net cost, they use the same $ margin, so the meal, not having GST charged is cheaper to the customer. GST is not an expense or a cost, its a balance sheet item, it doesnt affect profit and loss directly. In this example, it would probably aid the profit as meals are cheaper. The restaurant may decide to drop meals by 10% and pick up extra margin because its invisible to the customer, apart from regulars who will notice it, particularly on GS free start day


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  Reply # 1903983 19-Nov-2017 12:00
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sir1963:

 

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

Shame we can't apply the same flat rate to income tax...

 

 

Very easy

 

The poor pay less % the rich pay more, so easy to find the rate that gives the Govt the same revenue. What that will do though is reduce tax paid for the rich and increase on the poor. 

 

 

 

 

Easier method.

 

You can deduct the first $40,000 as a basic living allowance and pay a 50% flat rate above that.

 

 

Yes, thats a simple and good idea. The 50% maybe 60% its may be 40%, it just needs to be whatever maintains the same tax take.


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  Reply # 1903984 19-Nov-2017 12:00
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tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Yes. People compare "Brands", ie is Nescafe cheaper than Greggs.

 

The high profit areas are fruit and veg, bakery, Deli, butchery where people are comparing products the like to eat with products they don't, ie Apples are cheaper than Pears.

 

Supermarkets push savings on a branded product "coca-cola 2 for $5" and so on. But its those ungraded products where they make the real money this is why they put them first in the supermarket, to make the most profit from you before you start worrying about the budget.


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  Reply # 1903985 19-Nov-2017 12:02
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cadman:

 

tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

Maybe they could just have a s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ honesty box system for those hell bent on virtue signalling via giving yet more of their hard earned to the government to buy the votes of those too lazy to work.

 

 

Unsure what this topic has to do with hard earned, government, buying votes, lazy to work.

 

 

For what purpose is tax collected?

 

 

A few more things than transferring cash to the lazy people. Whatever the Govt was, or the taxes are, those bludgers will always exist.


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  Reply # 1903987 19-Nov-2017 12:07
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sir1963:

 

tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Yes. People compare "Brands", ie is Nescafe cheaper than Greggs.

 

The high profit areas are fruit and veg, bakery, Deli, butchery where people are comparing products the like to eat with products they don't, ie Apples are cheaper than Pears.

 

Supermarkets push savings on a branded product "coca-cola 2 for $5" and so on. But its those ungraded products where they make the real money this is why they put them first in the supermarket, to make the most profit from you before you start worrying about the budget.

 

 

You didnt explain why "All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15%?"  There is no doubt that invisible 15% will be dipped into by retailers as customers cannot see the before GST free price and the new GST free price, especially for products that vary so much. Some will see this and complain. Some will see a higher price variance between retailers as the competition between them should keep prices relatively close, but when one is 15% more expensive all of a sudden, it will hit the fan. Its probably not a ComCom or fair trading issue , but in todays world of whining and outing others, Im sure it would show bleeders up to the public.  


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  Reply # 1903988 19-Nov-2017 12:08
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tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

Maybe they could just have a s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ honesty box system for those hell bent on virtue signalling via giving yet more of their hard earned to the government to buy the votes of those too lazy to work.

 

 

Unsure what this topic has to do with hard earned, government, buying votes, lazy to work.

 

 

For what purpose is tax collected?

 

 

A few more things than transferring cash to the lazy people. Whatever the Govt was, or the taxes are, those bludgers will always exist.

 

 

 

 

I have an intellectually handicapped son, do you classify him as a bludger ?

 

I also know a lot of people who work damned hard physically, and I know people who sit in a nice air-conditioned office doing bugger all. One gets paid minimum wage they other well over $100,000 a year, but who is the bludger ?

 

How about the people who were laid off at Feltex the main employer in Foxton, not their fault the extremely well paid management got it wrong, guess which ones lost their houses to the banks and which one didn't.

 

 


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  Reply # 1903989 19-Nov-2017 12:11
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tdgeek:

 

sir1963:

 

tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Yes. People compare "Brands", ie is Nescafe cheaper than Greggs.

 

The high profit areas are fruit and veg, bakery, Deli, butchery where people are comparing products the like to eat with products they don't, ie Apples are cheaper than Pears.

 

Supermarkets push savings on a branded product "coca-cola 2 for $5" and so on. But its those ungraded products where they make the real money this is why they put them first in the supermarket, to make the most profit from you before you start worrying about the budget.

 

 

You didnt explain why "All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15%?"  There is no doubt that invisible 15% will be dipped into by retailers as customers cannot see the before GST free price and the new GST free price, especially for products that vary so much. Some will see this and complain. Some will see a higher price variance between retailers as the competition between them should keep prices relatively close, but when one is 15% more expensive all of a sudden, it will hit the fan. Its probably not a ComCom or fair trading issue , but in todays world of whining and outing others, Im sure it would show bleeders up to the public.  

 

 

 

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

Do you see the adverts for Pak n Save, their shop is at least 10% cheaper than the competition. If what you believe is true everyone would be shopping at Pak n Save, where as my experience is they shop at the one closest to them or the one they "like" with little regard to the price difference.

 

 


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  Reply # 1903992 19-Nov-2017 12:27
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sir1963:

 

tdgeek:

 

sir1963:

 

tdgeek:
cadman:

 

tdgeek: My focus was making healthy foods cheaper. That helps poor people, it also helps the health system.

 

 

 

It won't do that. The excluding GST price will simply expand to what the market will bear, so the price will not actually change.

 



All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15% ?

 

Yes. People compare "Brands", ie is Nescafe cheaper than Greggs.

 

The high profit areas are fruit and veg, bakery, Deli, butchery where people are comparing products the like to eat with products they don't, ie Apples are cheaper than Pears.

 

Supermarkets push savings on a branded product "coca-cola 2 for $5" and so on. But its those ungraded products where they make the real money this is why they put them first in the supermarket, to make the most profit from you before you start worrying about the budget.

 

 

You didnt explain why "All sellers will keep prices the same and pocket the 15%?"  There is no doubt that invisible 15% will be dipped into by retailers as customers cannot see the before GST free price and the new GST free price, especially for products that vary so much. Some will see this and complain. Some will see a higher price variance between retailers as the competition between them should keep prices relatively close, but when one is 15% more expensive all of a sudden, it will hit the fan. Its probably not a ComCom or fair trading issue , but in todays world of whining and outing others, Im sure it would show bleeders up to the public.  

 

 

 

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

Do you see the adverts for Pak n Save, their shop is at least 10% cheaper than the competition. If what you believe is true everyone would be shopping at Pak n Save, where as my experience is they shop at the one closest to them or the one they "like" with little regard to the price difference.

 

 

 

 

Calm down.

 

As to your previous comment re my reply to a poster who mentioned about some people who are too lazy to work, I am lost as to why you consider my post refers to handicapped people, hard working people and those that lost their jobs due to a company failing. Off course not. And I am sorry that as your son is handicapped that you were offended, assuming I was referring to people in that unfortunate situation. I hope things are going ok with him, as well as they can be.

 

Pak N Save is cheaper, due I assume to it being a basic environment whereas many supermarkets upgrade to the latest kool aid look. My point is I do not see retailers keeping the same prices once GST is removed from some items. Your Pay N Save theory is correct, but people know why its cheaper. If GST was removed from some staples, that applies to all supermarkets. Should bananas be $4 a kilo one day, and $4 a kilo the next day which is the new GST free price. Im sure that would be noticed by many.


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