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  Reply # 1913790 6-Dec-2017 11:04
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Great - thanks for that @Sam91

 

What I forgot to comment on was Auckland University offering papers specifically for secondary students. They've set up a maths paper jointly run by the Engineering School and Science departments so that secondary students who have already completed NCEA can still study maths, prepare for UE scholarship maths exam, achieve some level 1 university credits and complete the prerequisite for stage 2 mathematics. What I am also excited about for my son is that he will get a look at university life before he starts full time, and know what to expect when he does. 

 

This is just a fantastic opportunity and kudos to University of Auckland for offering it. I'd never heard of it, and only found out by accident from his school when we were talking to their advisor about his Y13 subject options. 


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  Reply # 1913794 6-Dec-2017 11:08
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Look back to when Uni fees were heavily subsidized , when I left school.

 

What would happen , when you leave school, go to uni for a year or 2 & then drop out.
Dropouts after a year used to be common, it so was so cheap to go to Uni/Tech it wasnt any big deal.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1913813 6-Dec-2017 11:49
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So it seems they have only confirmed this for tertiary study to be undertaken starting in the 2018 calendar year, wonder if it will continue after that?


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  Reply # 1913818 6-Dec-2017 12:00
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yitz:

 

So it seems they have only confirmed this for tertiary study to be undertaken starting in the 2018 calendar year, wonder if it will continue after that?

 

 

It's likely because they have a million other things to do at the moment, including Christmas shopping; that's why only 2018 passed.

 

The plan is to be extended to 3 years by 2020 IIRC.

 

Just wait till some time next year when they have figured out how to tax Aucklanders more first. You see, nothing is free. Someone's paying for it.

 

It's one thing if people who actually study get the money, but the concern is a significant percentage of people are going to get the free Uni fees paid for and flush the money down the toilet.


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  Reply # 1913820 6-Dec-2017 12:03
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Batman:

 

You see, nothing is free.

 

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

Batman:

 

Someone's paying for it.

 

 

Until they run out of "other people's money". Then you turn into Venezuela. Or NZ pre 1984 reforms.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1913824 6-Dec-2017 12:13
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Helen Clark did a similar thing - giving out interest free student loans 3 days before the general elections, causing National to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'm going to guess potentially something similar by JA next elections, some kind of youth/student bait again. Could well be delaying more years of free study unless you vote her back in or something. But if they throw in all the years free on this term of office, then they will come up with something else. Free accommodation? Free buses?

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  Reply # 1913858 6-Dec-2017 14:21
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kryptonjohn:

 

Batman:

 

You see, nothing is free.

 

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

Batman:

 

Someone's paying for it.

 

 

Until they run out of "other people's money". Then you turn into Venezuela. Or NZ pre 1984 reforms.

 

 

Following on from your quoted 1984 reforms, the New Zealand of today has one of the worst ranking for income inequality in the developed world, with child poverty an acknowledged issue, begging in the street commonplace and the illegal exploitation of low paid immigrants becoming more prevalent. Housing affordability is also one of the worst in the OECD, and most of the country's vital infrastructure is either lacking or in need of replacement. Have I missed anything?


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  Reply # 1913860 6-Dec-2017 14:24
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dafman:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Batman:

 

You see, nothing is free.

 

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

Batman:

 

Someone's paying for it.

 

 

Until they run out of "other people's money". Then you turn into Venezuela. Or NZ pre 1984 reforms.

 

 

Following on from your quoted 1984 reforms, the New Zealand of today has one of the worst ranking for income inequality in the developed world, with child poverty an acknowledged issue, begging in the street commonplace and the illegal exploitation of low paid immigrants becoming more prevalent. Housing affordability is also one of the worst in the OECD, and most of the country's vital infrastructure is either lacking or in need of replacement. Have I missed anything?

 

 

Yes, I did miss something - I forgot to mention that our waterways are significantly polluted with many rivers (that were swimable pre-1984) now toxic to humans.


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  Reply # 1913961 6-Dec-2017 17:08
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I wonder how place like Wellington is going to handle student accommodation with potentially all these new 1st years? Even this year there didnt' appear to be enough accommodation.


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  Reply # 1914013 6-Dec-2017 17:53
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mattwnz:

 

I wonder how place like Wellington is going to handle student accommodation with potentially all these new 1st years? Even this year there didnt' appear to be enough accommodation.

 

 

The simple answer is that they won't. Wellington and Auckland cannot sustain an additional 20k students each (I'm assuming at least half of the expected 80k will end up there, likely a lot more) so we'll see more housing crisis before a single KiwiBuild house is online.


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  Reply # 1914123 6-Dec-2017 21:13
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Not to worry UHD, I've done the proper research for you. You've got the number of additional students wrong by only a factor of 10..

 

"We have budgeted for a 3 percent increase in equivalent full-time students in 2018, equating to about 2000 extra students." - Chris Hipkins

 

In any case, these people aren't just appearing out of thin air. They still exist, they still have to live somewhere. Your assumption seems to be based on them all coming from non-University/tertiary towns and cities TO cities with University/tertiary education. Which is ridiculous. 80k are expected to get fees-free next year.. vs a projected 78k if there was no fees-free. 

 

Comprehend?


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  Reply # 1914149 6-Dec-2017 22:24
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dafman:

 

A question for those who oppose this scheme ...

 

With National Superannuation, taxpayers fund weekly payments to many very wealthy retired New Zealanders, who don't need it, do nothing in return for receiving it, yet we continue to pay them week on week on week. Is this not a greater waste of taxpayers money than providing support to New Zealanders to study?

 

 

 

 

Not really. The people receiving it (at least the wealthy ones to which you refer) will have paid vastly more in tax before they reached that point in their lives. When people are paying the IRD $100,000 and more every year in personal taxes, it more than makes up for a bit of pension at the end.






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  Reply # 1914150 6-Dec-2017 22:32
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sbiddle:

 

MaxLV:

 

sbiddle:

 

dafman:

 

A question for those who oppose this scheme ...

 

With National Superannuation, taxpayers fund weekly payments to many very wealthy retired New Zealanders, who don't need it, do nothing in return for receiving it, yet we continue to pay them week on week on week. Is this not a greater waste of taxpayers money than providing support to New Zealanders to study?

 

 

 

 

No it's not. National Super *is* the superannuation policy of NZ. Until it's ended and replaced solely by Kiwisaver (or other mandatory super schemes) then you can't not give people money.

 

It seems very clear Labour are going to backtrack on National canning National super. After National finally had the guts to do something Labour will likely change it.

 

I have no issue with the concept of a free education but personally can't understand why the scheme doesn't simply offer the 2nd or last year for free. That will deal with all the drop outs who will go into higher education simply because it's free no intention of ever completing their degree.

 

 

 

 

National didn't (and dont have a policy to) can the NZ Government super or the Super fund. One of their election promises was to resume contributions to the fund in 2019. Then there's the political fall out of losing a significant section of their voter support if they did try to get rid of it.

As for Kiwi Saver, as it's not compulsory, it cant replace the Super fund. 

As for free education the Labour government will be increasing it to cover up to three years by 2022, when its budgeted for.

 

 

I should have reworded that slightly. National proposed raised the age to 67 from 65 as the first step towards ending the current policy and making superannuation mandatory. It would seem that Labout plan to reverse that back to 65.

 

The current superannuation policy will implode as the population ages. Nobody seems to disagree about that, but nobody wants to act on it because they seem such a fundamental change will see them booted from power because so many people will take issue with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing that they do need to look at is providing people with some form of tax free retirement savings vehicle, which is common in many countries with which we would compare NZ.

 

A recent article in the Herald (by John Drinnan I think) picked up on a point I have made here several times concerning the effect of not giving people any form of tax free savings other than houses on the housing market.

 

If you want to change (not you personally - the collective you) the super system, the first thing to do is to start creating things (the US has the 401k, the UK has ISA's and tax rebates on all pension savings, other EU countries have various similar ideas) into which the people who you intend to disadvantage later in life by paying them later/never can put money to get a good return so that they can look after themselves.








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  Reply # 1914554 7-Dec-2017 12:39
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Someone had a question about when all this starts

https://www.feesfree.govt.nz/

"Tertiary education fees free

From 1 January 2018, tertiary education will be fees-free for eligible first time tertiary students.
...

----------------------
Learner criteria for provider-based study
----------------------

You need to meet these requirements for fees-free provider-based study. You must:
1 be allowed to work and live in New Zealand permanently, or be an Australian or New Zealand resident who has lived here for at least three years; and
2 not be enrolled in school when your qualification starts, and either: a. been enrolled at school in 2017 or 2018, or
b. not have undertaken previous study or training of more than 60 credits, except while you were at school, and

3 enrol in an eligible qualification.

----------------------
Learner criteria for industry-based training
----------------------

You need to meet these requirements for fees-free industry training. You must:
1 be allowed to work in New Zealand
2 not be enrolled in school when your programme starts, and either: a. have been enrolled at school in 2017 or 2018, or
b. not have undertaken previous study or training of more than 60 credits, except while you were at school, and

3 enrol in an eligible programme.

----------------------
Eligible qualification and programme criteria
----------------------

Your qualification or programme must also meet the following eligibility criteria:
1 starts in 2018
2 funded by the Tertiary Education Commission
3 recognised by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority
4 at Level 3 or above on the New Zealand Qualifications Framework, and
5 for industry training only, be at least 120 credits.

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  Reply # 1914593 7-Dec-2017 13:58
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So if this is eligible then:

 

http://www.igqgolfcollege.com/en/html.asp?type=12

 

I wish I was also eligible. Would love to have the NZ taxpayer pay my $32k p.a. fees while I work on getting my golf handicap down (which is the evaluation criteria)!

 

 


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