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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1918877 13-Dec-2017 10:22
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@StatsNZ have you fixed the address format inconsistencies from last time?: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=114783

 

 


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  Reply # 1918957 13-Dec-2017 11:11
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Pumpedd:

 

The only other person I kn ow who was against a Census was the Chch Wizard.

 

It is utter nonsense to be against a census which is required for so many legitimate reasons for Government. I suggest you do some reading up on the reasons for the questions and what use a census is put to.

 

Put simply its also the primary methodology for running a democracy, as eventually the electoral boundaries are changed based on a census. If you run and hide from a Census than I would suggest you have a lot of issues that need attention. I could go on, but I am not wasting more time on this...but you deserve to be charged as it is illegal to avoid a Census.

 

 

As far as I know, New Zealand and Australia are about the only countries still running this kind of census so other democracies have managed to find a way to survive without it. One characteristic of a democracy is that it allows for divergent opinions. As already stated, I have no objection to a census that is truly anonymous, but information I previously researched indicates that is not the case here. My opinion is that the census as currently conducted is a breach of my privacy. 

 

There is nothing illegal about being out of the country on census day. If you are going to attack me for something, at least get your facts right.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1918962 13-Dec-2017 11:19
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Rikkitic:

 

Pumpedd:

 

The only other person I kn ow who was against a Census was the Chch Wizard.

 

It is utter nonsense to be against a census which is required for so many legitimate reasons for Government. I suggest you do some reading up on the reasons for the questions and what use a census is put to.

 

Put simply its also the primary methodology for running a democracy, as eventually the electoral boundaries are changed based on a census. If you run and hide from a Census than I would suggest you have a lot of issues that need attention. I could go on, but I am not wasting more time on this...but you deserve to be charged as it is illegal to avoid a Census.

 

 

As far as I know, New Zealand and Australia are about the only countries still running this kind of census so other democracies have managed to find a way to survive without it. One characteristic of a democracy is that it allows for divergent opinions. As already stated, I have no objection to a census that is truly anonymous, but information I previously researched indicates that is not the case here. My opinion is that the census as currently conducted is a breach of my privacy. 

 

There is nothing illegal about being out of the country on census day. If you are going to attack me for something, at least get your facts right.

 

 

 

 

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Firstly you previously said you "avoid" censuses by being out of the Country deliberately. Breach of law. You are also wrong about other countries census. Last UK one was 2011 and the next one is 2021.

 

The smallest statistical unit measured is called a mesh block and you will not find personal information about anything within that meshblock. Get some help to understand privacy information and censuses, and stop encouraging others to avoid a census.

 

USA is 10 year cycles as well. I will repeat what I said...Censuses are a vital part of the democratic process.


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  Reply # 1918973 13-Dec-2017 11:48
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Pumpedd:

 

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Firstly you previously said you "avoid" censuses by being out of the Country deliberately. Breach of law. You are also wrong about other countries census. Last UK one was 2011 and the next one is 2021.

 

The smallest statistical unit measured is called a mesh block and you will not find personal information about anything within that meshblock. Get some help to understand privacy information and censuses, and stop encouraging others to avoid a census.

 

USA is 10 year cycles as well. I will repeat what I said...Censuses are a vital part of the democratic process.

 

 

You are making things up. There is nothing in the Statistics Act about intention. All it says is that everyone in the country on census day and alive at midnight has to be counted. Stats NZ itself says it is a 'snapshot'. Anyone not in the country is not included. Your reason for not being in the country has nothing to do with it.

 

I did not say other countries do not hold censuses. I said Australia and New Zealand were among the few countries who do it in this way. 

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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Geek
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  Reply # 1918978 13-Dec-2017 12:13
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Rikkitic:

 

Pumpedd:

 

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Firstly you previously said you "avoid" censuses by being out of the Country deliberately. Breach of law. You are also wrong about other countries census. Last UK one was 2011 and the next one is 2021.

 

The smallest statistical unit measured is called a mesh block and you will not find personal information about anything within that meshblock. Get some help to understand privacy information and censuses, and stop encouraging others to avoid a census.

 

USA is 10 year cycles as well. I will repeat what I said...Censuses are a vital part of the democratic process.

 

 

You are making things up. There is nothing in the Statistics Act about intention. All it says is that everyone in the country on census day and alive at midnight has to be counted. Stats NZ itself says it is a 'snapshot'. Anyone not in the country is not included. Your reason for not being in the country has nothing to do with it.

 

I did not say other countries do not hold censuses. I said Australia and New Zealand were among the few countries who do it in this way. 

 

 

Researchers such as academics can apply for access data at the individual level, but it has no identity information. http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/integrated-data-infrastructure/keep-data-safe.aspx


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1918984 13-Dec-2017 12:24
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Pumpedd:

 

The smallest statistical unit measured is called a mesh block and you will not find personal information about anything within that meshblock.

 

 

That's not true. The census data is combined with detailed data from IRD, Ministry of Health, Ministry of Social Development (benefits, etc), Ministry of Justice, and others.

 

All that data ends up in the Integrated Data Infrastructure (IDI), https://www.stats.govt.nz/integrated-data/integrated-data-infrastructure, as a set of records that hold a lot of detailed data about almost every individual in NZ.

 

Researchers can access the IDI to do a very wide range of analyses. To safeguard privacy, the records are anonymized and results are randomly rounded when output. But the data is analysed at an individual, rather than meshblock, level.

 

Edit: Pom532 beat me to it.


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  Reply # 1918986 13-Dec-2017 12:25
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The next UK census is scheduled to take place in March 2021. However, on behalf of the Government, the UK Statistics Authority has initiated a research programme, called Beyond 2011 to investigate a range of alternative options to conducting a UK-wide census in 2021.[21]





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  Reply # 1919017 13-Dec-2017 12:58
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Pumpedd:

 

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Firstly you previously said you "avoid" censuses by being out of the Country deliberately. Breach of law. 

 

 

Wouldn't most people go overseas deliberately?  I suppose they could be abducted by pirates, other than that or legal deportation it's hard to see how someone would overseas other thane as a deliberate choice.





Mike

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  Reply # 1919042 13-Dec-2017 13:55
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MikeAqua:

 

Pumpedd:

 

The only other person I kn ow who was against a Census was the Chch Wizard.

 

 

The general census is also fundamentally unnecessary.  Any decent statistician should be able to design a survey that uses a sample, not the entire population.  Electoral boundaries could be managed well enough by electoral enrolments (which require an address).

 

 

Any good statistician needs to know the population in order to produce an accurate sample. One of the census's many roles is in defining the base for hundreds if not thousands of surveys - both by StatsNZ, govt agencies and private organisations.

 

StatsNZ is looking to move away from a full on census, but filling in that void will require greater connection of administrative data sources (e.g. IRD, MSD) which is subject to similar if not greater privacy concerns


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  Reply # 1919051 13-Dec-2017 14:16
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nickb800:

 

Any good statistician needs to know the population in order to produce an accurate sample. One of the census's many roles is in defining the base for hundreds if not thousands of surveys - both by StatsNZ, govt agencies and private organisations.

 

StatsNZ is looking to move away from a full on census, but filling in that void will require greater connection of administrative data sources (e.g. IRD, MSD) which is subject to similar if not greater privacy concerns

 

 

Mathematically You don't need to know the population, you just need to know whether you have sampled all of it. 

 

Most bio-statisticians don't know the sizes of the populations they are dealing with.  But if you must you can estimate it by a variety of methods without counting the whole population.

 

The privacy aspects of the census don't worry me, it's the compulsion aspect.





Mike

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  Reply # 1919054 13-Dec-2017 14:19
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nickb800:

 

StatsNZ is looking to move away from a full on census, but filling in that void will require greater connection of administrative data sources (e.g. IRD, MSD) which is subject to similar if not greater privacy concerns

 

 

Not keen on that, either, but hard to do much about it. I can do something about the census, which is to time my holidays accordingly. Consider it a small act of protest.

 

To clarify my stance, I understand that data from the census is anonymised before it is released for any kind of research or other use. That is fine. But internally it remains personally identifiable forever and that is what I object to. Our governments are generally benign but no-one can predict with certainty what might happen in the future. As a matter of principle, I object to this. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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  Reply # 1919209 13-Dec-2017 17:41
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Christ... good to see a positive initiative get smashed by the cynics as usual...

 

 

 

Attempting to get on track... a real simple one for @StatsNZ..

 

How will we log in to the census?

 

Before the general election, I went through the two week process to get my RealMe identity verified. I hope a piece of tree won't get wasted on me posting out authentication codes etc.


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Wannabe Geek
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Stats NZ

  Reply # 1919232 13-Dec-2017 18:35
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andrewNZ: I truly hope it's all been done as well as is claimed. There are so many examples of government department IT incompetence it's gone beyond a joke.

Was the security testing done by:
1) An experienced and respected external company or group of companies.
2) An external company setup and owned by the government for the purpose.
3) Bill from the design team "cause he read about it once".

 

@andrewNZ:

 

We have completed testing at every stage of the system build. This includes design, code and penetration testing. We have used trusted specialists contracted through our government approved panel to do this testing.





Stats NZ

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Stats NZ

  Reply # 1919236 13-Dec-2017 18:46
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@lcl @nunz

 

Thanks for your interest! We're working through your questions and will post replies over the next few days.





Stats NZ

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