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  Reply # 1945704 23-Jan-2018 20:16
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Oops I just realized I wrote "it would be rare note for me to order a steak" when what I meant to write, was "it would be rare for me to order a steak".

 

I cut my steak. I'd likely send back a steak I had to saw.

 

I agree there is a difference between butchering knives and kitchen knives. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1945707 23-Jan-2018 20:22
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networkn:

 

I find it *insane* how bad steaks are at restaurants in NZ (and in fact many steak places in the US). I would cook a better steak at home in 10 minutes than 90% of restaurants I've eaten at in NZ. Even dedicated steak places where it's obvious they don't rest the meat, or not long enough. It's horrible. 

 

It would be rare not for me to order a steak at a restaurant even if I really want one. Exceptions are Wagyu at Japanese places.

 

Sorry for the off topic stuff OP.

 

 

My cuzzie the chef cooked a great (home) BBQ, he'd touch a steak and press it gently with a finger, from that he'd nail cooking them as requested.  He hated serving steak in restaurants though, as there's a certain type of person who'll order a rare steak and a bottle of shiraz, proclaim the steak overdone and the shiraz corked when nothing was wrong with either - but the rule that the customer is always right holds unless you want a scene in the restaurant.  Simple answer - take steaks off the menu - much less grief for the kitchen and front of house staff. You only need one person like that to ruin an entire night.  Overheads on steaks are high, you'll lose some customers who won't eat anything but steak and potatoes - but win in the long run.

 

Hmmm - that said - I had a steak at the new Chch "Little High Eatery" "El Fogon" bar a few weeks ago.  It was absolutely outstanding, Venezuelan BBQ.  I'm pretty sure it was just a (large) slab of inexpensive rump, but BBQd to perfection, spiced a little, rested nicely, tender, moist, perfect. Pretty sure it only cost about $30.

 

That eatery gives me faith in the Chch rebuild - its a great idea and seems to be very well patronised. 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1945713 23-Jan-2018 20:34
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Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

I find it *insane* how bad steaks are at restaurants in NZ (and in fact many steak places in the US). I would cook a better steak at home in 10 minutes than 90% of restaurants I've eaten at in NZ. Even dedicated steak places where it's obvious they don't rest the meat, or not long enough. It's horrible. 

 

It would be rare not for me to order a steak at a restaurant even if I really want one. Exceptions are Wagyu at Japanese places.

 

Sorry for the off topic stuff OP.

 

 

My cuzzie the chef cooked a great (home) BBQ, he'd touch a steak and press it gently with a finger, from that he'd nail cooking them as requested.  He hated serving steak in restaurants though, as there's a certain type of person who'll order a rare steak and a bottle of shiraz, proclaim the steak overdone and the shiraz corked when nothing was wrong with either - but the rule that the customer is always right holds unless you want a scene in the restaurant.  Simple answer - take steaks off the menu - much less grief for the kitchen and front of house staff. You only need one person like that to ruin an entire night.  Overheads on steaks are high, you'll lose some customers who won't eat anything but steak and potatoes - but win in the long run.

 

Hmmm - that said - I had a steak at the new Chch "Little High Eatery" "El Fogon" bar a few weeks ago.  It was absolutely outstanding, Venezuelan BBQ.  I'm pretty sure it was just a (large) slab of inexpensive rump, but BBQd to perfection, spiced a little, rested nicely, tender, moist, perfect. Pretty sure it only cost about $30.

 

That eatery gives me faith in the Chch rebuild - its a great idea and seems to be very well patronised. 

 

 

Yes, the touch test is surprisingly accurate. I am not sure if you have tried this, but if you turn your hand palm up, and touch your thumb to your forefinger, then middle, and onward to your pinky, then touch the fleshly part of your thumb,each of those very accurately will take you from rare to well done. 

 

I agree re how hard is it to please steak eaters. Everyone has such a difference of perception for some reason. My MIL is full Chinese and wouldn't eat steak any way except fully utterly well done. As a meat lover and a reasonable cook, I only cook steak one way, after a few visits, I think she would agree medium rare is better. Having said that, a well-done steak rested properly, can be tender and juicy. I dream one day of owning a steak house.

 

The best steaks I've had pretty much anywhere was in the US at a steak chain called Ruth Chris. ANYWHERE in the US you can go to a RC and get the same exact steak prepared the same way. They are fanatical about it (There is a youtube video that is very interesting about how they control everything), and the steaks are amazing.  I have had better occasionally as one offs but for consistency, it's nearly impossible to beat. 

 

I was in CHCH a few weeks ago, El Fogon was on my list of restaurants to try (I love Argentian BBQ) but couldn't fit it in with some of the other choices I made re food. 

 

I could talk food all night, all day and all tomorrow night too, maybe this steak discussion should be moved to another thread to save derailing what was an interesting original topic on it's own..

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1945736 23-Jan-2018 20:41
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Never been happy with those touch tests plus you have to open the hood. For me it's internal temperature. 53c is my magic number for steak.
Some top chefs swear by the touch test and some swear by thermometer there's no single answer.

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  Reply # 1945737 23-Jan-2018 20:48
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Tinkerisk:

 

There is always an exception from the rule: https://www.tormek.com/new-zealand/en/ best when a machine is used instead of manual work. And for tools.

 

 

Nothing wrong with using a machine, but I'd prefer a belt sander for a nice convex edge.  Most of the time I just use a DMT Diafold but I do have a mini belt sander that I sometimes use, I have a good range of different belts right down to 2,400 grit.


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  Reply # 1945743 23-Jan-2018 20:56
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MarkH67:

 

Most of the time I just use a DMT Diafold but I do have a mini belt sander that I sometimes use, I have a good range of different belts right down to 2,400 grit.

 

 

I assume you do it dry? Be careful not to overheat and destroy the crystalline structure of your knife's steel at the edge. Depending of the kind of steel used, this can happen at comparable low temperatures. That's not possible with water cooling or a manual grinding stone.


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  Reply # 1945744 23-Jan-2018 20:57
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This weekend we were in Matakana (for anyone interested, we stayed here www.wlodge.co.nz which was AMAZING, seriously, huge, amazingly equipped with stunning views). There is a guy who is in the Market who sharpens knives. He blew my sons mind showing him taking a blunt knife and making it sharp enough to cut a sheet of newspaper by dropping it onto the blade. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1945745 23-Jan-2018 20:58
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For those of you who sharpen your knifes at home, on a steel.. PLEASE wash your knives very carefully afterward. Tiny shards of metal in your soft tissues isn't an experience you'd likely forget.

 

 


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  Reply # 1945753 23-Jan-2018 21:02
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networkn:

This weekend we were in Matakana (for anyone interested, we stayed here www.wlodge.co.nz which was AMAZING, seriously, huge, amazingly equipped with stunning views). There is a guy who is in the Market who sharpens knives. He blew my sons mind showing him taking a blunt knife and making it sharp enough to cut a sheet of newspaper by dropping it onto the blade. 


 


We stayed there too... Great place. Did you find the secret staircase to the top room under the gable?

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  Reply # 1945757 23-Jan-2018 21:03
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General Cooking Discussion: 

 

 

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=228819

 

 

 

To save this thread going off the cliff. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1945765 23-Jan-2018 21:18
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Tinkerisk:

 

I assume you do it dry? Be careful not to overheat and destroy the crystalline structure of your knife's steel at the edge. Depending of the kind of steel used, this can happen at comparable low temperatures. That's not possible with water cooling or a manual grinding stone.

 

 

My mini belt sander runs at quite a slow speed, it is actually designed as a knife sharpener.


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  Reply # 1945769 23-Jan-2018 21:22
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networkn:

 

He blew my sons mind showing him taking a blunt knife and making it sharp enough to cut a sheet of newspaper by dropping it onto the blade. 

 

 

There are some amazing skilled sharpening fanatics out there.  On blade forums, there are guys that spend a lot of time refining an edge for some seriously good hair whittling sharpness.  How many curls would you think you could get off a strand of hair?  Personally, I'm happy if I can easily shave arm or leg hair with my knives.  I can shave leg hair with my machete, I guess that's reasonable for that blade.




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  Reply # 1945792 23-Jan-2018 23:19
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Tinkerisk:

 

Fred99:

 

I still don't get what the big deal was - but it was a big deal, apparently.

 

 

Swap wife and proceed with fishing. ;-)

 

 

 

 

Got a new ute for my girlfriend.

 

 

 

Good swap, mate.








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  Reply # 1945793 23-Jan-2018 23:40
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MarkH67:

 

Tinkerisk:

 

There is always an exception from the rule: https://www.tormek.com/new-zealand/en/ best when a machine is used instead of manual work. And for tools.

 

 

Nothing wrong with using a machine, but I'd prefer a belt sander for a nice convex edge.  Most of the time I just use a DMT Diafold but I do have a mini belt sander that I sometimes use, I have a good range of different belts right down to 2,400 grit.

 

 

 

 

For general sharpening I use a Work Sharp Ken Onion edition belt sharpener. 

 

For the Japanese knives, they are sharpened using water stones when they are made and most would suggest that you carry on. Prochef and Artisan Knives in NZ both offer that service. I won't be touching mine.

 

Damascus steel (or what is mostly sold as Damascus nowadays) looks great but it's not how it looks that dictates how it performs, it is the steel type.

 

The two top powder steels are ZDP189 and R2 at the moment in the knife world. These can be made damascus-ish by cladding with stainless and/or nickel steels but do not need that.

 

I've see damascus finishes on VG10 steel which is a good cutlery steel.

 

Proper damascus is rare and extremely expensive because anything using it would be an antique. Sadly none of the steels marketed as Damascus today are actually true Damascus steel because no one knows how to make the original any more. The methodology was lost by about 1750. There are plenty of blades that have similar patterns though, achieved through various means.

 

There are a few (5 is one number I have seen in a few places) smiths in Japan who can make 100% carbon steel Honyaki bladed kitchen knives. A Honyaki blade is made the same way (more or less) as a Samurai sword, using clay on the blade to create differential heat treatment which results in the distinctive Hamon line on the finished blade. Expect to pay upwards of US$800 for something like that.

 

 

 

 






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  Reply # 1945798 24-Jan-2018 00:03
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Geektastic: I can PM you details of a great dealer in Japanese knives here in NZ if you like. These artisan pieces knock spots off the more common mass market things like Shun and surprisingly do not cost much more - if they cost more at all.

 

Yes, please!


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