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Topic # 228903 29-Jan-2018 12:28
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Today we received a slightly panicky call to arms in our rural mailbox. The leaflet urges us to make a submission on the Telecommunications Bill opposing for at least 25 years (!) the removal of copper services in New Zealand. The logic seems to be that the roll-out of fibre to urban areas will mean the replacement of copper in rural areas with ‘microwave systems’. Of course we all know how bad microwave is. Just look at what it does to the food in your oven! It also gives you brain cancer and makes you dumber. Like the people behind this new campaign.

 

These latter-day Luddites also want to ‘require the continued maintenance of current copper communications systems and the provision of new copper systems if people request them’, and to ensure ‘the provision of wired (their emphasis) voice and broadband networks to rural New Zealanders.’ In other words, they want a 21st-century guarantee of dial-up!

 

I don’t know that there is a plot to do away with current copper-based landlines. I haven’t heard of one. But the people behind this campaign seem to think that the Bill ‘aims to get rid of “unnecessary” copper landline service in New Zealand’, while ‘microwave-based wireless systems would almost definitely be installed to replace the removed copper systems.’

 

And who is behind this dastardly conspiracy? According to the leaflet, ‘a big reason the NZ government has not yet acted to protect the NZ public from the health risks posed by microwave-based technologies is that the telecommunications industry has held sway over our government decisions, with the result that New Zealanders have been exposed to unhealthy radiation on a daily basis for several years now.’

 

I don’t know if the people behind this are just locals or if they have gone into business with Colin Craig. They call themselves EMR Health NZ Ltd but a Google search doesn’t find anything.

 

I think I will go stand in front of my Sky dish for awhile to see if my brain heats up. After that I will try the RBI antenna that provides our Internet and telephone service. Then maybe a cell phone. And then I will go microwave my supper, have a vaccination, and put fluoride on my teeth!

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1948102 29-Jan-2018 12:35
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No cure for dumb!

 

Linux





Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days

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  Reply # 1948103 29-Jan-2018 12:37
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Maybe they are related to these guys http://www.stopsmartmeters.org.nz

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1948110 29-Jan-2018 12:51
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I have no issue with this, its a good idea. It will benefit local employment to maintain the copper network. 

 

As long as NOT ONE CENT of these costs are charged to non copper customers. I can see a monthly phone bill being $500+ as the share of an ever increasing maintenance is divided by an ever decreasing subscriber base. 

 

But good for local employment!!


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  Reply # 1948112 29-Jan-2018 12:53
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fearandloathing: Maybe they are related to these guys http://www.stopsmartmeters.org.nz

 

Yeap

 

http://www.stopsmartmeters.org.nz/latest-news/save-nzs-landline-phones-action-needed-now/


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  Reply # 1948127 29-Jan-2018 13:16
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Maybe these guys have picked up on the following research?

 

http://www.neilcherry.nz/

 

 

 

Edit: click on the documents link.

 

 


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  Reply # 1948129 29-Jan-2018 13:27
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I worked in mobile for a very long time, with many people in NZ, Australia and UK. From the RT systems which had power in the range of 4W for handsets and 25W for vehicles, down to the GSM systems broadcasting 600mw at a range of 1cm from your head.

 

I've seen or known a LOT of folks that have developed some form of MS or brain tumour as they got older - I don't know statistically if it's more or less than other industries or life in general - you cant help but wonder. Once upon a time asbestos was safe and so was lead in paint. anyway.

 

The amount of times I got told off by Telecom's radio engineers for having the aerial on my phone down and blasting straight into my head.... well, enough that the message stuck.

 

 

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1948133 29-Jan-2018 13:36
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Heh, I wonder how these people would react to find out about the country sets and DMR links running the majority of proper rural NZ's phones and internet?

 

Their heads would be spinning.

 

@antoniosk - there's definitely something to it, I do recall distinctly I got a bit too close to the head end of a 4G LTE box in one of the exchanges, and felt a bit of a head spin, which I chalk up to the sheer power of the leakage, certainly something I would err on the side of caution with.




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  Reply # 1948138 29-Jan-2018 13:54
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Of course electromagnetic radiation can affect living organisms, but there is an awful lot of unnecessary concern caused by superstitious ignorance. The past century has been characterised by two things in the industrialised world: (1) a vast increase in exposure of ordinary people to EMR, and (2) a vast increase in the average lifespan and overall health of ordinary people. In the extensively wired USA average lifespan went from less than 50 years at around the beginning of the 20th century to more than 80 years at the end. Of course this was due to many factors, but the presence of EMR does not seem to have severely impacted it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1948142 29-Jan-2018 14:04
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Hahahahaahahahah OMG such dumb there!

 

I should put a submission in to counter their dumb saying turn it off and rip it out. But I have better things to do with my time like play with my cats, sort out my loose fastener collection or arrange my laundry by how faded they are.





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  Reply # 1948143 29-Jan-2018 14:09
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Since they hate microwave systems so much, presumably they would also hate WiFi as well. As that uses the same frequency band as microwave ovens. As long as the copper that they want to retain happens to be Ethernet.

But on a more serious note, fibre has much lower maintenance costs than copper. And lots of rural lines by my understanding are running on PCM circuits that date back to the 1980s. Presumably replacement equipment is not made anymore, And Chorus has to progressively upgrade areas to fibre, just to make equipment available to maintain other areas.

Eventually they will have to do a forced upgrade of the last holdouts, or just disconnect them. They did this when crank handle phones were phased out, leaded petrol (super grade) was banned from sale, The switch off of the DAMPS and CDMA cellphone networks. And more recently when analogue TV was switched off.

As for smart meters, not having one already limits what power plans you can sign up for. So being afraid of smart meters means that you get punished by having to pay more for your electricity.

Also could the mods please de linkify the links to those websites listed earlier in this thread. I don't want the reputation of those websites to be increased due to having links on GZ pointing to them

Edited to add

And having a landline instead of a cellphone means you are also getting punished by having to pay more. As you can get an on account cellphone plan with unlimited calls for less than line rental on a landline.

Roll on 2019 (I think it is) When copper in fibre areas will become deregulated. Meaning Chorus can charge as much as they like for line rental. Or just say that they are going to disconnect you.





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  Reply # 1948146 29-Jan-2018 14:16
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Linux:

 

No cure for dumb!

 

Linux

 

 

There is.  It's just not allowed.  :-/





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  Reply # 1948189 29-Jan-2018 15:37
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kotuku4:

 

Yeap

 

http://www.stopsmartmeters.org.nz/latest-news/save-nzs-landline-phones-action-needed-now/

 

 

I don't understand this:

 

The “Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill” could result in copper landline services being phased out in areas of New Zealand where fibre optic cables have been installed.  If the bill is passed in its current form this bill it would deprive people of the basic home phone service and safe wired internet connection.

 

Emphasis added by me.

 

They aren't even talking about rural areas or microwave. Anyone with fibre can get a landline, either VoIP or directly off the ONT like Spark does (forgot what that is called).

 

Or am I misunderstanding something?




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  Reply # 1948204 29-Jan-2018 16:01
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Don't forget these people are the modern equivalent of witch-burners. Don't expect them to make sense. They are just spouting their ignorant propaganda, which in these kinds of cases is usually a bizarre blend of twisted fact and delusional fabrication. 

 

 





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  Reply # 1948210 29-Jan-2018 16:29
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Most New Zealanders cannot remember ever having lived without a basic home phone, thanks to the reliable copper-based infrastructure that has been installed all around New Zealand over the course of many, many decades.

 

I'm sorry? reliable?

 

 

 

I don't have the stats on hand, But I'm sure even @ChorusNZ will quote here Fibre faults are resolved far faster than Copper.

 

 

 

Simply put, a copper cable gets cut, you require to troubleshoot and find the fault.

 

Fibre gets cut, It can be logically calculated to the exact location.

 

 

 

On the RSP end, Fibre have access to know how the ciruit is preforming, If the fibre has a Kink in it causing degraded service we can tell this.

 

Copper, you have to go through about 50 hops and your still stuck up the creek on if a fault will magically disable with a no fault found etc...





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 1948223 29-Jan-2018 17:15
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Reliable in the sense that if the local power goes out your phone is powered by batteries at the exchange. It's not an issue for cities. Rural areas may have frequent power outages. I'll give them that point.

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